|
|
Politics
Mar 29, 2016 23:30:04 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Jindred on Mar 29, 2016 23:30:04 GMT -5
You can say you don't believe me at all, all you want. I don't care. Why would I lie? Who are you? Do I even know you? Hell no. It's impossible to have a conversation with people who are 100% liberal. Remember I took the test and I'm about 50/50. I have an open mind and listen. You do not. You are so sold on your opinions that no one else is even close to being smart enough to talk to you. We have had this conversation before. I have seen your debates and typings for years. You have never conceded anyone has a point. So lets go back to Obama ending the unlawful, stupid, wrong war in Iraq. I will ask you a few questions. Do you think Iraq was pretty much stable while we were there at the end? (before Obama "ended the war") Do you think that if we stayed a little longer and listened to the generals, that things might be different? I do not want war. It was over and Iraq was pretty much peaceful until Obama withdrew. Do you agree with that or not? If you don't give points that he or anyone else agrees with why would we concede a point? You say you are 50% liberal but you spout nothing but republican agenda. I can honestly say I've never seen you concede a single point in favour of anything Obama or Hillary has ever done and I've never hear you talking up any liberal points. Why would I believe you are half liberal when all I've seen from you is to the complete contrary. I could tell you I took a test and got half republican would you believe it? |
|
|
|
Post by 101mitch on Mar 29, 2016 23:32:41 GMT -5
|
|
craig440
College Starter
My dog
Posts: 547
|
Post by craig440 on Mar 30, 2016 0:03:32 GMT -5
You can say you don't believe me at all, all you want. I don't care. Why would I lie? Who are you? Do I even know you? Hell no. It's impossible to have a conversation with people who are 100% liberal. Remember I took the test and I'm about 50/50. I have an open mind and listen. You do not. You are so sold on your opinions that no one else is even close to being smart enough to talk to you. We have had this conversation before. I have seen your debates and typings for years. You have never conceded anyone has a point. So lets go back to Obama ending the unlawful, stupid, wrong war in Iraq. I will ask you a few questions. Do you think Iraq was pretty much stable while we were there at the end? (before Obama "ended the war") Do you think that if we stayed a little longer and listened to the generals, that things might be different? I do not want war. It was over and Iraq was pretty much peaceful until Obama withdrew. Do you agree with that or not? If you don't give points that he or anyone else agrees with why would we concede a point? You say you are 50% liberal but you spout nothing but republican agenda. I can honestly say I've never seen you concede a single point in favour of anything Obama or Hillary has ever done and I've never hear you talking up any liberal points. Why would I believe you are half liberal when all I've seen from you is to the complete contrary. I could tell you I took a test and got half republican would you believe it? I hear ya. I hope no one is getting mad. I spew conservative stuff here because there is mostly liberal stuff. I am torn on the candidates. I have said that before. I don't trust Hillary. But she is the one who will expand Obamas. stuff. So I will try and prove to you that I am fifty fifty. I just don't discuss with Saska that angle because all we would do is sing together. Okay. Here I go. I believe global warming exists. Is it man made? Somewhat. Can we do all we can to do all we can? Of course. Wind, solar, etc. Lets do it.
Planned parent hood. I, like Trump, think they do a great GREAT service to women. I think we should fund them.
Abortion. I am pro life. I don't have the right to tell my daughter what to do. So I am also pro choice.
gay marrage? Have a good time. Ya all be happy, does not affect me. Although one of my step brothers is gay. And he is against gay marrage because he says he liked not being allowed to get married. haha true story. I actually think no one should be allowed to get married. 
Fossil fuel. Leave it in the ground. We have better options and we should be smarter than that. But Hillary and the establishment will bow down. Trust me.
War. No! Our men And women getting killed NO! . But if we must, do it the best you can. Make it fast and strong. Right now Obama has made us weak. That is why the world is going to suffer.
Immigration? I'm all for securing the border. Drugs, guns, and assholes do come in. It's not to much to ask for good people to come in legally.
Health care. It's already free for the poor. It's called medical. Obama care. Sucks. Way to expensive and the deductible is $6000.00 per year. I can't go see a doctor for a check up without paying for it. And my premium is two hundred a month. and going to go up. The obama government pays the rest of my primium. It comes out of my estate when I die. It's not assistance its a loan from my kids. And I can't pay cash for a doctor visit or I get fined $2300.00
Let me think of another liberal thing I am. Humm
I am all for securing the boarder. Stop the drug cartels from poising our children. As far as Trumps plan to deport all illegals? Fuck no. I have friends who have been here since they were brought as children. They know no other life. Give them a path to being legal. Make it easy. Stop them from coming though. It's a huge problem
There I hope you can see I am fifty fifty. I only argue the conservative side here because that is what raises conversation. I can easily take the other side.
|
|
craig440
College Starter
My dog
Posts: 547
|
Post by craig440 on Mar 30, 2016 0:19:14 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by saskabronco on Mar 30, 2016 5:29:14 GMT -5
You can say you don't believe me at all, all you want. I don't care. Why would I lie? Who are you? Do I even know you? Hell no. It's impossible to have a conversation with people who are 100% liberal. Remember I took the test and I'm about 50/50. I have an open mind and listen. You do not. You are so sold on your opinions that no one else is even close to being smart enough to talk to you. We have had this conversation before. I have seen your debates and typings for years. You have never conceded anyone has a point. So lets go back to Obama ending the unlawful, stupid, wrong war in Iraq. I will ask you a few questions. Do you think Iraq was pretty much stable while we were there at the end? (before Obama "ended the war") Do you think that if we stayed a little longer and listened to the generals, that things might be different? I do not want war. It was over and Iraq was pretty much peaceful until Obama withdrew. Do you agree with that or not? So you ignore every single question I ask you and expect that I answer your questions? It's so frustrating discussing this stuff with you, but I continue to have these discussions because it pushes me to find new information and sometimes I confirm my opinion while other times I change my mind. But you say I have never conceded anyone has a point? That's just ridiculous. I have had many discussions and I am not easily swayed, but that's because I usually do a lot of reading into this stuff before I go on about it. The way guys like you discuss this stuff, you'll always have trouble swaying anyone who's made an effort to be informed because you offer nothing substantial. You bitch about Obama based on a few personal gripes you've have and stuff you've heard on Fox News, all while ignoring what anyone else has to say about anything and refusing to address a single point that doesn't fit your narrative. First, I'll answer your questions (maybe someday you'll be nice enough to do the same in return). Was Iraq pretty much stable before the troops were pulled out? No. There was still corruption in the government that was put in place and beyond anything that America could fix, there was an underlying fight that has been there for centuries between at least two different sects of the Muslim faith. That fight was inevitable and the USA had no right to try and intervene in the first place. Going to Iraq was a mistake I think there was no point that would have been too soon to leave. On top of all that, Bush is the one who set the timetable and signed an agreement to leave by 2011. Had Obama agreed to stay in a place where they weren't wanted, he would have had to negotiate a new deal because US troops would have lost political immunity that would have made their jobs much more difficult otherwise. So you keep blaming Obama for ending the war, even though Bush signed the deals and set the timetable for US to leave before Obama ever got in. Yes, Obama campaigned on ending that war as well, so he obviously would have tried to end things regardless of Bush's agreements, but the timetable was already set and Obama would have had to either ignore signed agreements or renegotiate a plan in order to stay. At that point most Americans just wanted out though, and a path was already paved for them. If we stayed longer, would it have been better? I'm not a military expert, so I can't really say with any confidence. But you asked for my opinion, so I'll say I don't think more time would have helped. There was obviously a massive amount of underlying instability and groups waiting for a chance to rise up. Would a little more time have been enough to crush all the potential rebels hiding in the wings? I'd think that's pretty unlikely. That region has been wrought with instability for a long time thanks to religious extremists and power hungry individuals who recognize a chance to manipulate people and create chaos. In my very unprofessional opinion, no amount of war would have fixed that. The smart people just waited in the wings, ready to pounce on an opportunity whenever it arose. US involvement made a lot of people made (killing friends and families) and it would not have been hard to generate an uprising whenever you guys decided to leave. Was Iraq pretty much peaceful before the troops left? No and I think I answered why I feel that way above. Here are a couple links that you might find interesting. One is just the Wikipedia page showing the information about why US left Iraq (about Bush signing the agreements and Obama following through on his campaign promises). The other is a site where political experts give their views on whether US left too early. There are people writing for both sides, so read some of each. www.usnews.com/debate-club/did-the-us-withdraw-from-iraq-too-soonen.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_of_U.S._troops_from_Iraq#August_2010_partial_withdrawalSo now I'll post a couple questions and I expect that you'll be nice enough this time to address them each. What would staying a little longer in Iraq have accomplished? What would another president (McCain, Romney, Trump) have done better than Obama for this war, given that an exit strategy was already set in motion before taking office? Why is diplomacy, and an unwillingness to recklessly endanger more lives, considered weakness? |
|
|
|
Post by saskabronco on Mar 30, 2016 9:52:32 GMT -5
craig440Here is another great link that shows how Obama was attempting to keep a military presence in Iraq for longer. Now I don't necessarily agree with the decision to keep troops there longer, but this surely refutes your claim that Obama just wanted to get out of Iraq. www.theguardian.com/world/2011/oct/21/iraq-rejects-us-plea-basesAs I said before, Bush set the timeline for an exit strategy, complete with signed documents stating when US troops would lose diplomatic immunity. Obama attempted to renegotiate the terms of that agreement but the Iraqi government refused. To stay in Iraq would have meant doing so at a much greater risk to the safety and protection of US troops. Just so we don't get sidetracked though, I will repeat the questions that I would like you to answer: What would staying a little longer in Iraq have accomplished? What would another president (McCain, Romney, Trump) have done better than Obama for this war, given that an exit strategy was already set in motion before taking office? Why is diplomacy, and an unwillingness to recklessly endanger more lives, considered weakness?
|
|
craig440
College Starter
My dog
Posts: 547
|
Post by craig440 on Apr 9, 2016 1:57:10 GMT -5
How can anyone not see the false arrogance of this man and this statement? Does he really think he is doing a good job in foreign policy? The world is WAY more dangerous than eight years ago. The black population in our country is WAY less better off than eight years ago.
The world leaders laugh at him, they don't respect us anymore. That is a fact. It's time for a change.
(sorry Saska I haven't followed up on our conversation.)
This arrogant speech makes me sick.
One thing he says is true. We do have serious problems here around the world. And whoever is the next president will have to deal with that. Obama has left the foreign situation a disaster. You must admit that? Right?
|
|
craig440
College Starter
My dog
Posts: 547
|
Post by craig440 on Apr 9, 2016 3:05:20 GMT -5
Very first sentence. "I am getting questions constantly from foreign leaders"
YA right. Like from who? Ya think N. Korea, Russia, Iran, Iraq, Israel, or even anyone in Europe is going to call Obama? Maybe Castro. "Hey B you wanna go to tango or sum ting? We go to Argentina. Dat Trump and Cruz suk, ya?" You da man senior Bamo."
"Mr. President, Putin is on line one, wants to know whats up with these wacky things in politics. Pak Pong Ju, is on line two, and Netanyahu is on line three. They want to know if you are going to let Trump or Cruz take over?"
We all want Hillary of course Mr. President so go on TV and bash the ones we don't want, says the world leaders. We have a life style to live.
|
|
|
|
Post by saskabronco on Apr 9, 2016 21:47:10 GMT -5
craig440 Of course other world leaders are going to be concerned about Trumps wall plan, or Cruz's idea to monitor all Muslims. Those are bad ideas that will very strongly and negatively impact international relationships. World leaders do speak to one another. What's arrogant about Obama in that speech? I can't even take you seriously anymore... You just sound like a hateful old man who hates anything liberal (yet swear that you are an undecided at this point).
|
|
craig440
College Starter
My dog
Posts: 547
|
Post by craig440 on Apr 9, 2016 23:32:21 GMT -5
craig440 Of course other world leaders are going to be concerned about Trumps wall plan, or Cruz's idea to monitor all Muslims. Those are bad ideas that will very strongly and negatively impact international relationships. World leaders do speak to one another. What's arrogant about Obama in that speech? I can't even take you seriously anymore... You just sound like a hateful old man who hates anything liberal (yet swear that you are an undecided at this point). The thing you super liberals don't understand is actually the liberal verbiage of what people say. You take it so literal. Like the Bible, you take it so literal that you can not understand the point. I know you will call me names again, but I am not a hateful old man who hates anything liberal. So to shorten my response I will just say, Trump does not care if the leaders of the world don't like him. He is for America first. That is his appeal. Is he dangerous? Ya I say probably. Is he part of the establishment that John Kennedy warned us about and died for? absolutely not. Bernie is not a part of that either. But Hillary is. There is only two choices here. Either go for the status quo or make a change. There are two movements in the offering. Pick one. Or go for the same old con. Its up to you. Oh I didn't explain "the Wall" It means he will secure the border. He's not going to build the wall of China. Come on wake up to the message The wall is just a border. It will involve lots more than bricks and cement. But you don't understand the message. |
|
