Championship formats

[Nathan]

May 4, 2015 8:03:21 GMT -5 steelers54 said:

Growing up in Pennsylvania I really wasn't exposed to racing and didn't follow the sport much at all.
That changed when the company I worked for moved down south an I got the chance to transfer with it.
My first real experience with racing started when my church started to take the young kids to the spring race down at The Lady in Black for the Busch Series. Took just one time going to a live race an I was hooked, the roar of those engines the smell of fuel and burning rubber,what a rush.
Used to get a lot of slack from some people at church for liking Jeff Gordon (my name is also Jeff)he was one of my favorite drivers.

Now on to your question, "How will Jeff's impending retirement (And JR and Tony)affect Nascar?"

Harking back to the days of the Rainbow Warriors Jeff will sorely be missed. When he came on to the scene he wasn't thought of very highly by some of the veteran drivers or fans for that matter. They all soon found out he had more then just a pretty boy face, man could he drive. He turned NASCAR upside down and quickly earned the respect of the older more established drivers,he didn't back down and wouldn't be intimidated.
Jeff put his stamp on NASCAR like no other driver before him and will be a shoe in for the Hall of Fame.

Tony Stewart's (Smoke) retirement won't affect NASCAR all that much, ever since he's had multiple surgeries to his leg and being involved in the death of that driver Tony hasn't been the same. I'm sure he will be in the Hall of Fame along side Gordon. Sure he could race with the best of them but I think his legacy will be more of a bad boy image then anything else. Tony liked it as long as he was the one dishing it out but always seems to cry when he's on the receiving end of it.

Dale Earnhardt Jr.'s retirement will have the biggest impact on NASCAR because of the deep rooted history the Earnhardt's have in NASCAR.
I felt bad for Jr when his dad died and thought he should have been the one to take over D.E.I. but in the long run it was the best thing that could have happened and gave him the chance to over come the shadow of his father. I think Jr will drive as long as he has the ambition that drives him and as long as he's having fun doing what he loves doing racin'.


Even though some of my favorite drivers will retire that will not lessen the love I have for the sport. There's some good young drivers and there's some up an coming drivers who have yet to leave their legacy on NASCAR. It will be interesting to watch and see how that all pans out. You've got racing in your blood and your interest will be rekindled when some young driver catches your attention.

Yeah I believe it was Rick Mast that said Jeff Gordon's the reason they all had airplanes, lol. He's the last vestige of The Golden Age, the last reminder of the 90's, and honestly, a big reminder of Dale Earnhardt. I know lots of folks who, for some reason, when they see Jeff Gordon and that 24 Chevy they see Dale Earnhardt racing with him. Tony's will have an impact because he does have a big fanbase, we'll have to see who they latch onto. You're spot on with Jr, what if he and Kelly bring Jr Motorsports up to Cup? But Jeff may have a bigger impact than anyone realizes because he did bring in people who didn't care about racing before. He is still the face of NASCAR outside the confines of the sport, Jr is the face inside, but for non-NASCAR fans, it still appears to be Jeff Gordon. Jr came in and inherited much of his fanbase. Jeff created his, will those fans find someone else? We'll just have to see.

When Jeff retires I guess i'll break out my old Jimmie Johnson gear. I really like Chase Elliott, but just the thought of someone else in the #24 makes me a bit queasy, lol. Kyle Larson is good, and I like Ty Dillon as well, there's alot of good talent down there but nobody has me really excited. I guess i'll have to see how much Jeff Gordon mentors Chase Elliott.

[steelers54]

Yeah I agree Jeff may have a bigger impact than anyone realizes and being part owner of the #48 team doesn't hurt,plus with Jeff trying the broadcasting he'll still be tied to Nascar one way or another. I haven't watch to hear how he's done doing the XFinity races but from what I've heard he's doing a great job with it.

Dale Jr may have inherited some of his fan base but he's done a lot to expand that on his own merits. That's a good question about him & Kelly bringing JR Motorsports up to the cup. Don't know if he will or stay where he's at, one thing for sure Jr can driver and he's also got a good eye for spotting/finding young talented drivers.

You can see a lot of Jeff & Ray when he was the crew chief in Jimmie & Chad man those two together are unbelievable, just when ya think you got'em right where you want'em they turn it up a notch.
It's not just Jeff all the Hendrick drivers have been helping Chase Elliott out, it might make you a bit queasy seeing someone else in the #24 but I don't think it bothers Jeff at all. Who know's maybe out of respect to Jeff, Chase may choose to drive the #25 car at first.

It's like that old saying change the things you can and accept the things you can't, that's what I've done with the Chase format. I know there's quite a few of the older drivers who would like to go back to the old point system but I doubt NASCAR will an with some of the young drivers the Chase is the only format they know. What would be your feelings if NASCAR scrapped the current system and took the top 4 to 6 drivers in points not wins and used the last couple races to determine the Championship?

[Nathan]

May 5, 2015 11:23:56 GMT -5 steelers54 said:

Yeah I agree Jeff may have a bigger impact than anyone realizes and being part owner of the #48 team doesn't hurt,plus with Jeff trying the broadcasting he'll still be tied to Nascar one way or another. I haven't watch to hear how he's done doing the XFinity races but from what I've heard he's doing a great job with it.

Dale Jr may have inherited some of his fan base but he's done a lot to expand that on his own merits. That's a good question about him & Kelly bringing JR Motorsports up to the cup. Don't know if he will or stay where he's at, one thing for sure Jr can driver and he's also got a good eye for spotting/finding young talented drivers.

You can see a lot of Jeff & Ray when he was the crew chief in Jimmie & Chad man those two together are unbelievable, just when ya think you got'em right where you want'em they turn it up a notch.
It's not just Jeff all the Hendrick drivers have been helping Chase Elliott out, it might make you a bit queasy seeing someone else in the #24 but I don't think it bothers Jeff at all. Who know's maybe out of respect to Jeff, Chase may choose to drive the #25 car at first.

It's like that old saying change the things you can and accept the things you can't, that's what I've done with the Chase format. I know there's quite a few of the older drivers who would like to go back to the old point system but I doubt NASCAR will an with some of the young drivers the Chase is the only format they know. What would be your feelings if NASCAR scrapped the current system and took the top 4 to 6 drivers in points not wins and used the last couple races to determine the Championship?

I MISS RAY EVERNHAM!

"What would be your feelings if NASCAR scrapped the current system and took the top 4 to 6 drivers in points not wins and used the last couple races to determine the Championship?" I don't like that because I really don't like the idea of shaking up the points at any time during the year. If I had to rank the formats, with the 4-6 idea on the table, It'd go like this-
#1- Classic Season Points.
#2- Current Elimination Chase.
#3- 4-6.
#4- First Chase.

Jeff is doing a good job in the broadcast booth, he is much better than Keselowski. When Kes isn't talking he's giving a creepy death stare straight into the camera, lol. The only thing I noticed with Jeff is that he was saying "You know" a bit too often. It was his go-to phrase.

Yeah I kind of forgot that Jr did bring in alot of young redneck kids back in his ole' backwards ballcap days. He's brought up guys like Truex, Almirola, Cole Whit, and Kes. I've actually got a Hendrick Motorsports cap and will likely wear that with an old Jimmie shirt and pull for Hendrick drivers, because Jeff is pretty much 2nd in command at Hendrick. I know Chase driving the #24 doesn't bother Jeff, he gave his blessing for it and is ultra supportive, but I'd prefer Chase in the #25, maybe i'll feel differently after awhile, hopefully I will because I do like Chase.

[steelers54]

May 5, 2015 16:59:07 GMT -5 Nathan said:

May 5, 2015 11:23:56 GMT -5 steelers54 said:

Yeah I agree Jeff may have a bigger impact than anyone realizes and being part owner of the #48 team doesn't hurt,plus with Jeff trying the broadcasting he'll still be tied to Nascar one way or another. I haven't watch to hear how he's done doing the XFinity races but from what I've heard he's doing a great job with it.

Dale Jr may have inherited some of his fan base but he's done a lot to expand that on his own merits. That's a good question about him & Kelly bringing JR Motorsports up to the cup. Don't know if he will or stay where he's at, one thing for sure Jr can driver and he's also got a good eye for spotting/finding young talented drivers.

You can see a lot of Jeff & Ray when he was the crew chief in Jimmie & Chad man those two together are unbelievable, just when ya think you got'em right where you want'em they turn it up a notch.
It's not just Jeff all the Hendrick drivers have been helping Chase Elliott out, it might make you a bit queasy seeing someone else in the #24 but I don't think it bothers Jeff at all. Who know's maybe out of respect to Jeff, Chase may choose to drive the #25 car at first.

It's like that old saying change the things you can and accept the things you can't, that's what I've done with the Chase format. I know there's quite a few of the older drivers who would like to go back to the old point system but I doubt NASCAR will an with some of the young drivers the Chase is the only format they know. What would be your feelings if NASCAR scrapped the current system and took the top 4 to 6 drivers in points not wins and used the last couple races to determine the Championship?

I MISS RAY EVERNHAM!

"What would be your feelings if NASCAR scrapped the current system and took the top 4 to 6 drivers in points not wins and used the last couple races to determine the Championship?" I don't like that because I really don't like the idea of shaking up the points at any time during the year. If I had to rank the formats, with the 4-6 idea on the table, It'd go like this-
#1- Classic Season Points.
#2- Current Elimination Chase.
#3- 4-6.
#4- First Chase.

I didn't say anything about shaking up the points. What I meant was that the season points would not change they would carry over with the drivers and eliminate the stupid circumstances. Then you could kinda do what the current elimination does and drop the 2 lowest drivers in points for each race leading up to the final race of the year. Make it so they have to get at least a top 10 finish or even a win instead of just finishing the race,makes or forces them to drive like they did to get the Points lead. If neither gets a win or top 10 finish the Championship goes to the driver with the most points ( there's your undisputed Champion).

For the ones like you who like the Classic Season Points I don't know if it's even possible to have a combination of both to where everyone would be happy. One thing is for sure as I've said before I don't think NASCAR will go back to just Season Points. Wise man once said you can make some of the people happy some of the time but you can't make all the people happy all the time.

Here's my question to you. Not using the Classic Season Points how would you change it to make it better ?

[Nathan]

May 6, 2015 4:39:57 GMT -5 steelers54 said:

May 5, 2015 16:59:07 GMT -5 Nathan said:

I MISS RAY EVERNHAM!

"What would be your feelings if NASCAR scrapped the current system and took the top 4 to 6 drivers in points not wins and used the last couple races to determine the Championship?" I don't like that because I really don't like the idea of shaking up the points at any time during the year. If I had to rank the formats, with the 4-6 idea on the table, It'd go like this-
#1- Classic Season Points.
#2- Current Elimination Chase.
#3- 4-6.
#4- First Chase.

I didn't say anything about shaking up the points. What I meant was that the season points would not change they would carry over with the drivers and eliminate the stupid circumstances. Then you could kinda do what the current elimination does and drop the 2 lowest drivers in points for each race leading up to the final race of the year. Make it so they have to get at least a top 10 finish or even a win instead of just finishing the race,makes or forces them to drive like they did to get the Points lead. If neither gets a win or top 10 finish the Championship goes to the driver with the most points ( there's your undisputed Champion).

For the ones like you who like the Classic Season Points I don't know if it's even possible to have a combination of both to where everyone would be happy. One thing is for sure as I've said before I don't think NASCAR will go back to just Season Points. Wise man once said you can make some of the people happy some of the time but you can't make all the people happy all the time.

Here's my question to you. Not using the Classic Season Points how would you change it to make it better ?

Ok I guess I don't get what you're saying about that format. Anyhoo, to me, if there's any Motorsport that needs an excitement boost it'd be Indycar, but they aren't even considering a playoff format (F1 neither). NASCAR doesn't even use it in the Xfinity or Trucks, which tells me its really just a promotion deal.

To your question, good question. Here's what I would do, I think it makes fantastic sense, I would make it a One race Regular Season (Daytona 500), and after the Daytona 500 we would begin a 35 race Chase for Cup using eliminations, but the Eliminations would be mathematical, once you have fallen so far back in the points and are mathematically eliminated from title contention, you would then gain ZERO points for the rest of the year.

Which brings me to my (And Jeff's) idea for the current Chase tweak, only the drivers still in the Title Hunt can gain points. For example, Last year Jeff, Kes, Kevin, Newman, Matt, Denny, Joey, and Carl were still in contention at Phoenix. Jimmie, Jr and everybody else were out of contention so their finishing position would not affect the drivers still in it. If Jeff won the race, and Kevin finished 6th behind 4 drivers NOT in contention he would only lose 1 point to Jeff. Denny could finish 35th in the race but if only 4 Championship contenders finished ahead of him, then he would only lose 4 points in the Championship, then the other bum drivers wouldn't have an affect on the Championship. That's another problem that screwed over Jeff last year (Texas), and it seems like a common sense move for NASCAR to make.

[steelers54]

That's a very interesting concept you have there. Not so sure about the One race Regular season (Daytona 500) and then a 35 week Chase for Cup. After being "mathematically eliminated from title contention,you would then gain Zero points for the rest of the year". Wouldn't that screw up driver & owner points for the following year? Some of those drivers/owners rely on those points for getting a provisional the following year in a race.

Why not reverse it by having the first 10 races the regular season and the final 26 as The Chase. Most would be already mathematically eliminated so all they be racing for is driver/owner points for next years provisional's.


What I have a hard time wrapping around my head is if NASCAR truly wants a Playoff. Then why are the teams not in the Chase still racing after week 26? (I think I know why but had to put that out there) The last 10 races should be for only those that are in the Chase. Then as you said after they are matchematically eliminated from title contention they would gain Zero Points until the Chase is over.

[Nathan]

May 8, 2015 13:21:53 GMT -5 steelers54 said:

That's a very interesting concept you have there. Not so sure about the One race Regular season (Daytona 500) and then a 35 week Chase for Cup. After being "mathematically eliminated from title contention,you would then gain Zero points for the rest of the year". Wouldn't that screw up driver & owner points for the following year? Some of those drivers/owners rely on those points for getting a provisional the following year in a race.

Why not reverse it by having the first 10 races the regular season and the final 26 as The Chase. Most would be already mathematically eliminated so all they be racing for is driver/owner points for next years provisional's.


What I have a hard time wrapping around my head is if NASCAR truly wants a Playoff. Then why are the teams not in the Chase still racing after week 26? (I think I know why but had to put that out there) The last 10 races should be for only those that are in the Chase. Then as you said after they are matchematically eliminated from title contention they would gain Zero Points until the Chase is over.

I think we may be on the road to something like that, lol. I just don't know what's going to be next but its shaping up to be something. I mean did you see the TV ratings for Dega? Worst since 98 I think. Richmond finished well behind the Cavs-Celtics game that day (3.1 v 4.2, which is a major bummer. Clips-Spurs drew 5.0). The Hub did a segment on the social media mentions that NASCAR generated during, and especially after, Jr won Dega. Thing is, the numbers were completly explainable by outside rationales, and they still didn't stack up with other events and stuff that's in the same ballpark, so to speak, as NASCAR. So I think we may have other changes in the next year or 3. Another big blow to NASCAR is GoDaddy leaving, because GoDaddy is not leaving Danica, just NASCAR, and the reasons they stated don't bode well for NASCAR. Lets also not forget the owners union, that's something that appeared to be setup in preparation for possible future issues. It appears NASCAR tried to change its identity but instead they just lost it. I just don't know what will happen in the coming years.

[Nathan]

...Also the NBA games were on cable whereas the race was on mothership FOX.

[steelers54]

May 8, 2015 14:34:23 GMT -5 Nathan said:

May 8, 2015 13:21:53 GMT -5 steelers54 said:

That's a very interesting concept you have there. Not so sure about the One race Regular season (Daytona 500) and then a 35 week Chase for Cup. After being "mathematically eliminated from title contention,you would then gain Zero points for the rest of the year". Wouldn't that screw up driver & owner points for the following year? Some of those drivers/owners rely on those points for getting a provisional the following year in a race.

Why not reverse it by having the first 10 races the regular season and the final 26 as The Chase. Most would be already mathematically eliminated so all they be racing for is driver/owner points for next years provisional's.


What I have a hard time wrapping around my head is if NASCAR truly wants a Playoff. Then why are the teams not in the Chase still racing after week 26? (I think I know why but had to put that out there) The last 10 races should be for only those that are in the Chase. Then as you said after they are matchematically eliminated from title contention they would gain Zero Points until the Chase is over.

I think we may be on the road to something like that, lol. I just don't know what's going to be next but its shaping up to be something. I mean did you see the TV ratings for Dega? Worst since 98 I think. Richmond finished well behind the Cavs-Celtics game that day (3.1 v 4.2, which is a major bummer. Clips-Spurs drew 5.0). The Hub did a segment on the social media mentions that NASCAR generated during, and especially after, Jr won Dega. Thing is, the numbers were completly explainable by outside rationales, and they still didn't stack up with other events and stuff that's in the same ballpark, so to speak, as NASCAR. So I think we may have other changes in the next year or 3. Another big blow to NASCAR is GoDaddy leaving, because GoDaddy is not leaving Danica, just NASCAR, and the reasons they stated don't bode well for NASCAR. Lets also not forget the owners union, that's something that appeared to be setup in preparation for possible future issues. It appears NASCAR tried to change its identity but instead they just lost it. I just don't know what will happen in the coming years.

I thought the reason behind GoDaddy dropping sponsorship was cause the company went from private to public stock. What other reason did they state that doesn't bode well FOR NASCAR? If the networks are not advertising or promoting the sport enough to generate ratings then why doesn't NASCAR just start it's own (NASCAR Network) to promote the sport better.
NASCAR has made some good changes to the cars and by adding safer barriers to the tracks, but I think they make too many rule changes which is hard enough on the drivers and harder for fans trying to following the sport to understand them.

[Nathan]

May 9, 2015 11:23:31 GMT -5 steelers54 said:

May 8, 2015 14:34:23 GMT -5 Nathan said:

I think we may be on the road to something like that, lol. I just don't know what's going to be next but its shaping up to be something. I mean did you see the TV ratings for Dega? Worst since 98 I think. Richmond finished well behind the Cavs-Celtics game that day (3.1 v 4.2, which is a major bummer. Clips-Spurs drew 5.0). The Hub did a segment on the social media mentions that NASCAR generated during, and especially after, Jr won Dega. Thing is, the numbers were completly explainable by outside rationales, and they still didn't stack up with other events and stuff that's in the same ballpark, so to speak, as NASCAR. So I think we may have other changes in the next year or 3. Another big blow to NASCAR is GoDaddy leaving, because GoDaddy is not leaving Danica, just NASCAR, and the reasons they stated don't bode well for NASCAR. Lets also not forget the owners union, that's something that appeared to be setup in preparation for possible future issues. It appears NASCAR tried to change its identity but instead they just lost it. I just don't know what will happen in the coming years.

I thought the reason behind GoDaddy dropping sponsorship was cause the company went from private to public stock. What other reason did they state that doesn't bode well FOR NASCAR? If the networks are not advertising or promoting the sport enough to generate ratings then why doesn't NASCAR just start it's own (NASCAR Network) to promote the sport better.
NASCAR has made some good changes to the cars and by adding safer barriers to the tracks, but I think they make too many rule changes which is hard enough on the drivers and harder for fans trying to following the sport to understand them.

GoDaddy's pres release basically said they had milked NASCAR for what they were worth, they wanted to go bigger now, more international. At least that's what I got from it. Of all the changes NASCAR has made in the last 15 years, SAFER barriers, and mandatory HANS devices have been the best, they saved so many lives, including Jeff's (Pocono, Las Vegas, Charlotte...) and then moving from the COT to the new GEN-6, which was really a move by the Manufacturers, led by Chevrolet. And double file restarts (With lane choice) are good for the sport. There is one other thing that needs to be addressed, cautions. I don't fans understand why somethings go yellow and others don't, por ejemplo, last week at Dega. NASCAR needs to present a clear set of guidelines and reasons for a caution to come out. I remember last fall at Texas, when Jeff was running away with the victory, NASCAR threw a caution for Bowyer kissing the wall off of 4, which setup that infamous restart. Me and literally everybody else in the stands were confused and angry about it, even the Kes fan sitting a couple rows back was questioning it, there was no reason for it but still NASCAR threw the yellow, why? NASCAR needs a clear rule book about that also. There's too much gray in NASCAR. All the rule changes EVERY year is indeed frustrating.

I LOVE the idea for a NASCAR network, especially since SPEED channel is gone. If it comes it will likely be a premium cable network, so we'll have to pay extra, but it could grow into a commercial channel soon. Hell it should try to start off as a commercial network because the majority NASCAR fanbase will not, or cannot, pay extra for it. I don't think it's a promotion deal, NBC has been promoting it even began their own show, NASCAR America, FOX promotes it like crazy, the tracks promote it, at least Eddie down here in Fort Worth does. Eddie's got billboards all up and down I-35, he's got radio advertising, and hosts big pre-race and post-race shows with the likes of Jack Ingram, Kevin Fowler, Stoney LaRue, Cody Canada and the Departed, Kyle Park. Even for the upcoming IndyCar race Eddie has Reckless Kelly playing (My favorite!), they are all big names down here, all free with the race ticket. I standing right in front of the stage in the infield after the fall Cup race last year, pissed off as all get out, but having fun.

The promotion is there, the incentive is there, the prices are good, I just think its a bigger problem than all that. Alot of issues are in play here. But all that said, NASCAR still generates large audiences, relatively. Just not up to the standards we once were, and falling behind.