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Post by saskabronco on Nov 26, 2014 0:31:48 GMT -5
What do you want me to say Craig? You want me to tell you that it's one side's fault or the other, but I'm telling you it's both. It's never as simple as just one side or the other. If you want to point fingers, point them at the people who brought the black people over as slaves. That's where the problem started and since then the country has constantly had issues with racism. Black people have been segregated and oppressed in countless different ways, and they have also acted out in horrible ways. Both sides are to blame in different ways to different degrees. And you openly admitted that you were being racist about this issue "I'm becoming racist over this crap." So don't get all bent out of shape with me calling you a racist. You started that one yourself. The account you shared is one account of the issue. Why should it be believed over other accounts? We don't know the whole truth so stop acting like you do. Either way, the cop pumped multiple bullets in Brown with definite intent to kill, not just subdue. Maybe it was necessary, maybe not, but assuming the worst of the victim and the best of the cop, despite very conflicting evidence, is wrong. Just to make this clear I said it is starting to make me racist against the race. If they burn down my city, I will be pissed. And if any race did that to you I hope you would be also. I take all people individually. But when a race declares war on my streets I will not like them. It's just human nature. Cops are trained to shot to kill. They don't try and wound. If you get yourself in a situation where the cop feels his life is in danger, he has a gun and you don't, you will probably die. So bottom line is don't punch a cop and try and take his gun. I don't care what color you or he is. But you saska and it seems half the black community does not get that. If I punched a cop three times and tried to take his gun, I would expect to either kill him, or he would kill me. Bottom line. This whole race thing is stupid. Bringing slaves into it is even stupider. Pay attention to what I said Craig. I just said the issues started with slavery and have never really gone away. People claiming that racism is dead are just ignoring the truth of the world in which they live. Thee are serious issues that still exist in America (and most countries to different degrees with different races). You are right that people shouldn't treat cops that way. I agree with you there. Cops also shouldn't treat black people the way too many cops do... As if they are guilty of a crime before any reason to assume so has been given. The fact that you apparently hope that I would be racist if some black people wrecked my city is absurd though. I would be mad at those people, but I wouldn't hate a black guy that had nothing to do with it. Don't you realize the problem with associating issues with a race? Race doesn't determine ones actions and an entire race should not be responsible for the actions of a small minority. edit: I question the fact that cops are trained to shoot to kill. I would assume that they are not trained to shoot to kill. In fact killing should be the last resort. Considering the fact that the death penalty requires a massive pile of evidence and a huge trial, I can't imagine that cops are trained to hand out a death sentence so quickly. Their goal to should be to subdue and capture the perpetrator at all costs, and only use deadly force if completely necessary. Does anyone know whether this is the case? Maybe h24dog? Your dad was a cop you said, right?
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Post by Jindred on Nov 26, 2014 0:37:06 GMT -5
What do you want me to say Craig? You want me to tell you that it's one side's fault or the other, but I'm telling you it's both. It's never as simple as just one side or the other. If you want to point fingers, point them at the people who brought the black people over as slaves. That's where the problem started and since then the country has constantly had issues with racism. Black people have been segregated and oppressed in countless different ways, and they have also acted out in horrible ways. Both sides are to blame in different ways to different degrees. And you openly admitted that you were being racist about this issue "I'm becoming racist over this crap." So don't get all bent out of shape with me calling you a racist. You started that one yourself. The account you shared is one account of the issue. Why should it be believed over other accounts? We don't know the whole truth so stop acting like you do. Either way, the cop pumped multiple bullets in Brown with definite intent to kill, not just subdue. Maybe it was necessary, maybe not, but assuming the worst of the victim and the best of the cop, despite very conflicting evidence, is wrong. Just to make this clear I said it is starting to make me racist against the race. If they burn down my city, I will be pissed. And if any race did that to you I hope you would be also. I take all people individually. But when a race declares war on my streets I will not like them. It's just human nature. Cops are trained to shot to kill. They don't try and wound. If you get yourself in a situation where the cop feels his life is in danger, he has a gun and you don't, you will probably die. So bottom line is don't punch a cop and try and take his gun. I don't care what color you or he is. But you saska and it seems half the black community does not get that. If I punched a cop three times and tried to take his gun, I would expect to either kill him, or he would kill me. Bottom line. This whole race thing is stupid. Bringing slaves into it is even stupider. There are accounts of the cop attacking first too Craig.. So what if the kid was trying to protect himself from the cop?? You nor anyone else knows what happened.. from the all the different accounts I have read it sounds to me like he murdered an unarmed young man in cold blood, but I don't know for sure. Nobody knows what really happened. Right now one community is blindly taking one side and being stupid about it by rioting, you are now blindly taking the other side. YES it is blindly because there are so many differing accounts and you are choosing to listen to ONE. Bringing slaves into is not stupid on Saska's part, because you asked where the racism started. Racism started with slavery, by believing Black people were a lesser race than white. So he answered your question.. If you are asking in THIS specific event then the answer would be I/Saska/You don't know, because none of us were there to see the altercation with our own eyes. The cop may have been racist YOU don't know that, so its futile to ask or discuss that.
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Beastified
College Backup
I like chicken smegma
Posts: 418
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Post by Beastified on Nov 26, 2014 0:45:50 GMT -5
Saska I like how you once said you would never debate with me again because I turn into a child and start throwing insults. Well you are the first one to name call here. See? You always start this. Well when you start spewing racist BS, I'm tempted to call you moronic. If you showed an ounce of understanding of the actual situation, rather than just blaming black people for being criminals, I might show you an ounce of respect. Until then, I'll call you what you are. Fine but if you're going to call me racist then at least back it up.
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism
Definition 1: poor treatment of or violence against people because of their race <---- not me! Definition 2: the belief that some races of people are better than others <---- Did I ever mention this or even allude to it?
Saska, you are being hypersensitive towards blacks. While there are situational instances where they are discriminated against, it is not a prevalent problem in today's society. That's one of the points I've been trying to say, the other points are:
a) LOOTING AND BURNING DOWN BUSINESSES IS WRONG. You and Juggs seem to believe that this is ok because it will help strive towards racial equality? That is absolutely retarded! These are innocent people, innocent businesses, and innocent lives that have NOTHING to do with the so called "racism" that took place in the death of the thug Michael Brown. It makes no sense to harm people that are not even connected to the problem in any way, shape, or form. There is a better way to get racial equality (which already exists for the most part) -- peaceful protest. There are some peaceful protestors out there but there are many, and I mean many looters and rioters out there not for the sake of Mike Brown and justice, but to loot and start shit. They could give a rats ass about Mike Brown. They are using this as an opportunity to steal things and wreck havoc. I'm going to use a term from other blogs for the black people that are rioting, looting, and causing havoc -- these are homegrown terrorists.
b) That black people are racially-profiled because of animalistic actions like the looting and arson that are going on in Ferguson. When a large number of people are acting this way, it looks bad upon the entire race. I'm sorry but that's just how people view it and that is why police officers have an instinct to be more prejudiced towards black people. It is a PROVEN fact that the percentage of black criminals within the black population is WAY higher than the percentage of white criminals within the white population. I'm not just saying this, I understand why it is. Blacks are less educated, which in turn leads to lower wages, which in turn leads to less opportunity, which in turn leads to crime. I understand the sociological reasoning behind why there is higher crime for blacks, but the fact is that a black person is much more likely to be dangerous than a white person. This is not racist and common knowledge.
I don't know why black people are less educated. There are public schools for all to go to. Everyone has equal opportunity in terms of education. DNA may have something to do with it, because I think I read somewhere(I'm not sure), that black children have lower IQ's but also a higher drop out rate than whites, and this is in schools where there are white kids too. Don't get me wrong, I don't think black people are inferior at all. I don't look at a black person and automatically think I'm smarter than them. But as a whole, I know that blacks are less intelligent than whites because it is a fact. This is not racist because it doesn't mean that I believe that because whites are smarter, that they are better than blacks. I am just acknowledging the fact that whites are more intelligent than blacks, in terms of the entire population.
I know you are keen to the ideas that a sociologist would present regarding racism and politics. You would probably agree that it is mainly life experiences, not DNA that shape people who they are. With this being said, this is why you are hypersensitive to anything semi-conservative. You probably had a bad experience with a person who you regarded as "conservative" during your childhood or when you were growing up that leads you to think this way. Sorry, but you are insane if you think it is ok for these people to be doing what they are doing. If this were a bunch of white people doing it you would think it to be horrifying, but just because they are black you think it is ok. That is worst than being a racist. If I could come up with a word for it I would.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 0:53:20 GMT -5
I can't discuss with you two. You obviously ignore the facts and use cliche's. Slavery has been gone way before your parents were born. I don't feel I owe any one anything due to slavery. And slavery has nothing to do with what is going on now.
Cops are trained to shoot to kill. They are not trained to maim. Look it up. I'm done with this for now as I will never justify the racist actions of the protesters. NEVER. They are fools. And if you side with them then go burn up some cop cars. That will help.
Good night. And thanks for the input. As for now I think the Brown step father is an ass. Did you see him on TV yelling "Burn this place down! Burn this place down!" ?
Obama actually could help. He could get pissed and tell them to stop. But he would have to tell them in a stern way. But he won't.
Once again I will say this should not be a race thing, but a police vs citizen thing. The race thing has ruined any chance of correcting anything.
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Post by saskabronco on Nov 26, 2014 1:05:31 GMT -5
Well when you start spewing racist BS, I'm tempted to call you moronic. If you showed an ounce of understanding of the actual situation, rather than just blaming black people for being criminals, I might show you an ounce of respect. Until then, I'll call you what you are. Fine but if you're going to call me racist then at least back it up.
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism
Definition 1: poor treatment of or violence against people because of their race <---- not me! Definition 2: the belief that some races of people are better than others <---- Did I ever mention this or even allude to it?
Saska, you are being hypersensitive towards blacks. While there are situational instances where they are discriminated against, it is not a prevalent problem in today's society. That's one of the points I've been trying to say, the other points are:
a) LOOTING AND BURNING DOWN BUSINESSES IS WRONG. You and Juggs seem to believe that this is ok because it will help strive towards racial equality? That is absolutely retarded! These are innocent people, innocent businesses, and innocent lives that have NOTHING to do with the so called "racism" that took place in the death of the thug Michael Brown. It makes no sense to harm people that are not even connected to the problem in any way, shape, or form. There is a better way to get racial equality (which already exists for the most part) -- peaceful protest. There are some peaceful protestors out there but there are many, and I mean many looters and rioters out there not for the sake of Mike Brown and justice, but to loot and start shit. They could give a rats ass about Mike Brown. They are using this as an opportunity to steal things and wreck havoc. I'm going to use a term from other blogs for the black people that are rioting, looting, and causing havoc -- these are homegrown terrorists.
b) That black people are racially-profiled because of animalistic actions like the looting and arson that are going on in Ferguson. When a large number of people are acting this way, it looks bad upon the entire race. I'm sorry but that's just how people view it and that is why police officers have an instinct to be more prejudiced towards black people. It is a PROVEN fact that the percentage of black criminals within the black population is WAY higher than the percentage of white criminals within the white population. I'm not just saying this, I understand why it is. Blacks are less educated, which in turn leads to lower wages, which in turn leads to less opportunity, which in turn leads to crime. I understand the sociological reasoning behind why there is higher crime for blacks, but the fact is that a black person is much more likely to be dangerous than a white person. This is not racist and common knowledge.
I don't know why black people are less educated. There are public schools for all to go to. Everyone has equal opportunity in terms of education. DNA may have something to do with it, because I think I read somewhere(I'm not sure), that black children have lower IQ's but also a higher drop out rate than whites, and this is in schools where there are white kids too. Don't get me wrong, I don't think black people are inferior at all. I don't look at a black person and automatically think I'm smarter than them. But as a whole, I know that blacks are less intelligent than whites because it is a fact. This is not racist because it doesn't mean that I believe that because whites are smarter, that they are better than blacks. I am just acknowledging the fact that whites are more intelligent than blacks, in terms of the entire population.
I know you are keen to the ideas that a sociologist would present regarding racism and politics. You would probably agree that it is mainly life experiences, not DNA that shape people who they are. With this being said, this is why you are hypersensitive to anything semi-conservative. You probably had a bad experience with a person who you regarded as "conservative" during your childhood or when you were growing up that leads you to think this way. Sorry, but you are insane if you think it is ok for these people to be doing what they are doing. If this were a bunch of white people doing it you would think it to be horrifying, but just because they are black you think it is ok. That is worst than being a racist. If I could come up with a word for it I would.
When did I ever say that the riots are acceptable to any degree. I condemned the actions, along with the actions of the police forces handling the protests after the initial shooting. I never once condoned the rioting to any degree. Feel free to read my posts instead of just assuming to know what I would probably say. You have proven multiple times that you are racist. Blaming the entire race for the acts of few? Calling black people criminals? Saying black people are less intelligent than white people? Saying there is equal opportunity in America? All of this shows sweeping generalizations and complete ignorance to how America actually works. You absolutely admitted that some races (ie. whites) are better than others (blacks) when you say they are more intelligent, less prone to crime, etc. If there was any truth to those things, it stems from issues other than their genetic make up. Blacks in other places where they have equal opportunity are not stupider or more prone to crime. Terrible public schools in ghetto areas, severe poverty in black communities racial profiling by police officers... All of these contribute to the issues with black people in America. If you think they are just like this because they are black, you need to give your head a shake. The looting and rioting is not only black people and it is not all black people, so quit generalizing. The majority of black people are not doing anything wrong right now, yet you are instantly willing to paint them all with the same brush. I am against a lot of conservative beliefs because I see a lot of flaws in their ideas. I have no personal vendetta against conservatism because of some traumatic experience. I do have a personal vendetta against ignorance and blatant racism though, because both of those are poisonous to our society and only lead to more problems.
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Post by saskabronco on Nov 26, 2014 1:13:26 GMT -5
I can't discuss with you two. You obviously ignore the facts and use cliche's. Slavery has been gone way before your parents were born. I don't feel I owe any one anything due to slavery. And slavery has nothing to do with what is going on now. Cops are trained to shoot to kill. They are not trained to maim. Look it up. I'm done with this for now as I will never justify the racist actions of the protesters. NEVER. They are fools. And if you side with them then go burn up some cop cars. That will help. Good night. And thanks for the input. As for now I think the Brown step father is an ass. Did you see him on TV yelling "Burn this place down! Burn this place down!" ? Obama actually could help. He could get pissed and tell them to stop. But he would have to tell them in a stern way. But he won't. Once again I will say this should not be a race thing, but a police vs citizen thing. The race thing has ruined any chance of correcting anything. What facts am I ignoring? There are no facts about the shooting, only conflicting accounts from eye witnesses and the account from the officer himself, which also conflicts with eye witness accounts. We can't have a realistic discussion if you keep accusing me of doing things that I am not doing. I don't know what facts I am ignoring and for the dozen the time, I DO NOT AND HAVE NEVER ONCE SAID THAT I CONDONE THE RIOTS. I BLAME THE RIOTERS ALONG WITH THE REST OF THE PEOPLE INVOLVED. And when did I say you should feel guilty about slavery? I just said that the radius started with slavery, when people deemed an entire race as property and nothing more. Yes America has come a long way, but there is still a lot of racial tension that exists, and that is to be expected of a country that was founded while using an entire race as slaves, and that only recently (50 years ago) legally abolished segregation in the law, and which still practices many levels of segregation throughout the country. You shouldn't feel guilty about slavery because you weren't a part of that, but don't ignore the lasting effects of it that still very much exist today.
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Post by patriotsk1d on Nov 26, 2014 2:22:49 GMT -5
There are a lot of things wrong with the justice system, but yesterday's verdict wasn't one of them. There was a jury of 12 people (9 white and 3 black) that decided his fate. How does that make a police officer invincible? They had firsthand evidence and came up with a decision based on what they saw and heard from the 60+ so called "witnesses". I also do not like cops or gangbangers. But to say that the rioting and destroying of businesses is justified and will evoke positive change is ludicrous. These black people in Ferguson are the reason why there is racial profiling!!!! A black person is much more likely to be a criminal than a white person! They are giving a bad reputation for all blacks, it is honestly true. That stupid sign "Black Lives Matter" is the dumbest sign I have ever seen. Put that shit down. This case was not a matter of racism, the media is fooling you if you think it's about racism. This wasnt a trial, this was an indictment. Big difference. He may not have been found guilty in a trial, but you need barely any evidence to indict. The prosecutor clearly had no interest in getting an indictment, clear conflict of interest. "a black person is more likely to be a criminal than a white" How can you say this and then go on to claim you are not a racist? There is no science behind that at all.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 8:04:53 GMT -5
I guess I need to go ahead and throw this out there.......back in the day there were black slave owners too...and some,not a lot,white slaves. FYI
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Post by saskabronco on Nov 26, 2014 9:26:42 GMT -5
I guess I need to go ahead and throw this out there.......back in the day there were black slave owners too...and some,not a lot,white slaves. FYI I'm not sure what the intent is with pointing that out, but it doesn't change the fact that slavery in America was a racial thing where a large population of Africans were stolen from their homes, bought by Americans and forced to work for nothing. The reason it was brought up was because it was where the racism towards black people really began and all of the stuff happening today stems from that in one way or another. The fact that not all black people were enslaved, not all white people were slave owners, some white people were enslaved and some black people owned slaves doesn't change the massive impact that black slavery has had on race relations in America.
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h24dog
College Starter
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Post by h24dog on Nov 26, 2014 9:39:01 GMT -5
Just to make this clear I said it is starting to make me racist against the race. If they burn down my city, I will be pissed. And if any race did that to you I hope you would be also. I take all people individually. But when a race declares war on my streets I will not like them. It's just human nature. Cops are trained to shot to kill. They don't try and wound. If you get yourself in a situation where the cop feels his life is in danger, he has a gun and you don't, you will probably die. So bottom line is don't punch a cop and try and take his gun. I don't care what color you or he is. But you saska and it seems half the black community does not get that. If I punched a cop three times and tried to take his gun, I would expect to either kill him, or he would kill me. Bottom line. This whole race thing is stupid. Bringing slaves into it is even stupider. Pay attention to what I said Craig. I just said the issues started with slavery and have never really gone away. People claiming that racism is dead are just ignoring the truth of the world in which they live. Thee are serious issues that still exist in America (and most countries to different degrees with different races). You are right that people shouldn't treat cops that way. I agree with you there. Cops also shouldn't treat black people the way too many cops do... As if they are guilty of a crime before any reason to assume so has been given. The fact that you apparently hope that I would be racist if some black people wrecked my city is absurd though. I would be mad at those people, but I wouldn't hate a black guy that had nothing to do with it. Don't you realize the problem with associating issues with a race? Race doesn't determine ones actions and an entire race should not be responsible for the actions of a small minority. edit: I question the fact that cops are trained to shoot to kill. I would assume that they are not trained to shoot to kill. In fact killing should be the last resort. Considering the fact that the death penalty requires a massive pile of evidence and a huge trial, I can't imagine that cops are trained to hand out a death sentence so quickly. Their goal to should be to subdue and capture the perpetrator at all costs, and only use deadly force if completely necessary. Does anyone know whether this is the case? Maybe h24dog? Your dad was a cop you said, right? Cops are trained to shoot in the shooting ranges that are provided for them in the basements of the station (I've been down there before). My dad fortunately said he never had to fire his weapon in the 23 years of work, but that he did need to pull it out and aim it to ONLY get a gang member or some other threat to the area down to the ground so that the other officer(s) can proceed to put handcuffs on them. I guess the best way I can answer this question is that when they feel they are under enough pressure to shoot somebody who is a threat to them, they shoot to get them to stop that threat. From the amount of shots fired by the officer in this case, I would say Brown would have (I'm not trying to take a side here) been such a threat to the officer and perhaps the people around him. Again, I obviously wasn't there, and I believe that although it shouldn't be a first degree murder charge again the officer in this case, not being indicted certainly isn't any better.
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