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Post by saskabronco on Jan 20, 2014 15:55:34 GMT -5
On this specific topic I have debated with you before. I can't speak for anyone else but I have never expected you to like, or accept homosexuality. My only point has ever been that by disallowing gay marriage, something that has no affect on you or anyone else in Christianity or any other religion/non religion you(No specifically you) are causing affect in other peoples lives. Though not you specifically there are people, largely Christian people who speak out against gay marriage and cause problems for gay people based on their beliefs. That is where I draw the line, when someone elses beliefs infringe on another persons life. Christianity should have 0 say in whether or not gay people have the right to be married unless those people want to be married in a Christian ceremony. Christianity has every right to say "no that is our thing and in our religion we don't do that". Christianity being anti-gay is affecting people who aren't even Christian which is BS. You may not do it personally, and in no way do you have to like it or even accept it, from what you say I believe YOU have the right approach to it by just simply ignoring it. I believe that is a large part of tolerating each others beliefs is ignoring them until they affect us Then I guess we're in agreement here. Homosexuals can live their life as they please. As a student of the Bible, I believe that it's God's responsibility to judge. All I can do as a servant of God and follower of Jesus is preach to who wants to listen. If they don't want to listen, I believe God will remember their attitude and act accordingly in the future, but again, it's not MY place. For the time being, I personally could do without homosexuality being promoted on TV and such.I feel the same way about Christianity. There are radio ads about the Christian School here, with little children reading bible verses and there are all sorts of televangelists and such on TV pushing the word of God. I could personally do without it, but I have the option to turn off the TV or radio if it bothers me. It is not my place to protest their right to sell their product, just like any other company/organization. If someone tried to make me go to church or pray to God, then there would be a problem. Jindred I disagree that ignorance is a big part of tolerance. Ignoring others is just going to lead to bigger problems down the road. If you just accept that others have differing beliefs and you can respect the differences, then people can coexist peacefully.
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rey713
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Post by rey713 on Jan 20, 2014 15:59:59 GMT -5
Then I guess we're in agreement here. Homosexuals can live their life as they please. As a student of the Bible, I believe that it's God's responsibility to judge. All I can do as a servant of God and follower of Jesus is preach to who wants to listen. If they don't want to listen, I believe God will remember their attitude and act accordingly in the future, but again, it's not MY place. For the time being, I personally could do without homosexuality being promoted on TV and such.I feel the same way about Christianity. There are radio ads about the Christian School here, with little children reading bible verses and there are all sorts of televangelists and such on TV pushing the word of God. I could personally do without it, but I have the option to turn off the TV or radio if it bothers me. It is not my place to protest their right to sell their product, just like any other company/organization. If someone tried to make me go to church or pray to God, then there would be a problem. Jindred I disagree that ignorance is a big part of tolerance. Ignoring others is just going to lead to bigger problems down the road. If you just accept that others have differing beliefs and you can respect the differences, then people can coexist peacefully. I agree. And that's why JWs never promote themselves on TV/Radio/Newspaper/etc. We do have a website, but that would mean only people interested in learning would go to the site instead of it being shoved in your face. We do preach door to door, but that is because it is a commandment from God and what Jesus did on Earth. If someone doesn't want to hear it, we (SHOULD) respectfully say goodbye and depart.
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Post by Jindred on Jan 20, 2014 17:59:07 GMT -5
Then I guess we're in agreement here. Homosexuals can live their life as they please. As a student of the Bible, I believe that it's God's responsibility to judge. All I can do as a servant of God and follower of Jesus is preach to who wants to listen. If they don't want to listen, I believe God will remember their attitude and act accordingly in the future, but again, it's not MY place. For the time being, I personally could do without homosexuality being promoted on TV and such.I feel the same way about Christianity. There are radio ads about the Christian School here, with little children reading bible verses and there are all sorts of televangelists and such on TV pushing the word of God. I could personally do without it, but I have the option to turn off the TV or radio if it bothers me. It is not my place to protest their right to sell their product, just like any other company/organization. If someone tried to make me go to church or pray to God, then there would be a problem. Jindred I disagree that ignorance is a big part of tolerance. Ignoring others is just going to lead to bigger problems down the road. If you just accept that others have differing beliefs and you can respect the differences, then people can coexist peacefully. I agree that acceptance is better, but most people refuse to or can't accept so I believe ignorance is a decent option. If you can accept than do, if you can't ignore. Also you are essentially saying to ignore as well by way or turning off your tv or turning a blind eye to things you dislike and that is what I mean. If I don't want to hear someone preaching about the bible I have ever right to ignore it and its better for me to do so as I just get aggravated listening to it.
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Post by Morkim on Jan 20, 2014 18:28:54 GMT -5
Jindredlol your use of the word 'ignorance'
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rey713
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The King of the 713
Posts: 1,307
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Post by rey713 on Jan 23, 2014 21:12:18 GMT -5
Jindredlol your use of the word 'ignorance' Not talking about jindred with what I'm about to say: It bothers me when people misuse the word "ignorant". Here's the official definition: lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated.If the person you're calling "ignorant" is saying false information, or basing his opinion on false information unknowingly, then he's ignorant. But if someone is just stating an opinion, even if it sounds racist/homophobic/prejudiced/etc and you call him/her "ignorant", then YOU'RE the ignorant one because you don't know what that word means.
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Post by saskabronco on Jan 24, 2014 8:26:35 GMT -5
Jindredlol your use of the word 'ignorance' Not talking about jindred with what I'm about to say: It bothers me when people misuse the word "ignorant". Here's the official definition: lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated.If the person you're calling "ignorant" is saying false information, or basing his opinion on false information unknowingly, then he's ignorant. But if someone is just stating an opinion, even if it sounds racist/homophobic/prejudiced/etc and you call him/her "ignorant", then YOU'RE the ignorant one because you don't know what that word means. Well based on what certain people believe, if someone is acting racist/homophobic/etc it really comes across as someone lacking general awareness or being uneducated. Using an excuse like 'God says' to justify hatred is ignorance.
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rey713
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The King of the 713
Posts: 1,307
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Post by rey713 on Jan 24, 2014 9:21:17 GMT -5
Not talking about jindred with what I'm about to say: It bothers me when people misuse the word "ignorant". Here's the official definition: lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated.If the person you're calling "ignorant" is saying false information, or basing his opinion on false information unknowingly, then he's ignorant. But if someone is just stating an opinion, even if it sounds racist/homophobic/prejudiced/etc and you call him/her "ignorant", then YOU'RE the ignorant one because you don't know what that word means. Well based on what certain people believe, if someone is acting racist/homophobic/etc it really comes across as someone lacking general awareness or being uneducated. Using an excuse like 'God says' to justify hatred is ignorance.Good thing I don't use God as an excuse to hate someone, then. Look, I'm not defending racist/prejudiced/etc people. But if someone says "I hate Asian people", that's not 'ignorant' by definition. Yet our (online) society loves to use that word for some reason. If someone said "I hate those Pokémon-loving Japanese", then you could make a case for ignorant.
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Post by saskabronco on Jan 24, 2014 9:42:02 GMT -5
Well based on what certain people believe, if someone is acting racist/homophobic/etc it really comes across as someone lacking general awareness or being uneducated. Using an excuse like 'God says' to justify hatred is ignorance.Good thing I don't use God as an excuse to hate someone, then. Look, I'm not defending racist/prejudiced/etc people. But if someone says "I hate Asian people", that's not 'ignorant' by definition. Yet our (online) society loves to use that word for some reason. If someone said "I hate those Pokémon-loving Japanese", then you could make a case for ignorant. I wasn't attacking you for using God as an excuse to hate, I am attacking the large groups of people who do that. I never specified any individual with that statement. And I would argue that saying "I hate Asian people" is ignorant. It shows a lack of knowledge/understanding. No one knows all Asian people, so to say they hate Asians shows ignorance in that they are making a blanket statement regarding something they clearly do not have a full understanding of. To say something like "homosexuality is gross to me" is not ignorant, but to say "I hate homosexuals" or to apply a blanket statement about the entire group of homosexuals is ignorance because that would be assuming that you know all homosexuals, which no one possibly could. You said before: Basing an opinion on the assumption that you know an entire group of people because of one action that they perform is false information and by your definition, ignorance. There are so many things that people say that are ignorant, but that they try and say "Well that's just my opinion," but opinions can be ignorant. Generally when someone makes a racist/homophobic/prejudice remark, it calls for them to make a blanket judgement of the entire group of people they are against. It bothers me when I hear things like, "I don't hate all black people, I just hate black people who steal/murder." That is still a racist thing to say. Do you also hate white people who steal and murder? Why not just say that you hate murderers and thieves? Why does race have to be involved? I'll say it again... virtually anytime someone makes a statement that is racist/homophobic/prejudice towards a group, it requires some level of ignorance, due to the assumption that you know/understand every person who belongs to that group. Whether you are talking about gender, race, ethnicity, faith, etc. it is very rare that you can make a statement about an entire group that holds true across the board, and assuming otherwise is ignorant.
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rey713
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The King of the 713
Posts: 1,307
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Post by rey713 on Jan 24, 2014 22:24:32 GMT -5
Good thing I don't use God as an excuse to hate someone, then. Look, I'm not defending racist/prejudiced/etc people. But if someone says "I hate Asian people", that's not 'ignorant' by definition. Yet our (online) society loves to use that word for some reason. If someone said "I hate those Pokémon-loving Japanese", then you could make a case for ignorant. I wasn't attacking you for using God as an excuse to hate, I am attacking the large groups of people who do that. I never specified any individual with that statement. And I would argue that saying "I hate Asian people" is ignorant. It shows a lack of knowledge/understanding. No one knows all Asian people, so to say they hate Asians shows ignorance in that they are making a blanket statement regarding something they clearly do not have a full understanding of. To say something like "homosexuality is gross to me" is not ignorant, but to say "I hate homosexuals" or to apply a blanket statement about the entire group of homosexuals is ignorance because that would be assuming that you know all homosexuals, which no one possibly could. You said before: Basing an opinion on the assumption that you know an entire group of people because of one action that they perform is false information and by your definition, ignorance. There are so many things that people say that are ignorant, but that they try and say "Well that's just my opinion," but opinions can be ignorant. Generally when someone makes a racist/homophobic/prejudice remark, it calls for them to make a blanket judgement of the entire group of people they are against. It bothers me when I hear things like, "I don't hate all black people, I just hate black people who steal/murder." That is still a racist thing to say. Do you also hate white people who steal and murder? Why not just say that you hate murderers and thieves? Why does race have to be involved? I'll say it again... virtually anytime someone makes a statement that is racist/homophobic/prejudice towards a group, it requires some level of ignorance, due to the assumption that you know/understand every person who belongs to that group. Whether you are talking about gender, race, ethnicity, faith, etc. it is very rare that you can make a statement about an entire group that holds true across the board, and assuming otherwise is ignorant. If I say "I hate Asians", that makes me racist, not ignorant.
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Post by saskabronco on Jan 25, 2014 0:27:58 GMT -5
I wasn't attacking you for using God as an excuse to hate, I am attacking the large groups of people who do that. I never specified any individual with that statement. And I would argue that saying "I hate Asian people" is ignorant. It shows a lack of knowledge/understanding. No one knows all Asian people, so to say they hate Asians shows ignorance in that they are making a blanket statement regarding something they clearly do not have a full understanding of. To say something like "homosexuality is gross to me" is not ignorant, but to say "I hate homosexuals" or to apply a blanket statement about the entire group of homosexuals is ignorance because that would be assuming that you know all homosexuals, which no one possibly could. You said before: Basing an opinion on the assumption that you know an entire group of people because of one action that they perform is false information and by your definition, ignorance. There are so many things that people say that are ignorant, but that they try and say "Well that's just my opinion," but opinions can be ignorant. Generally when someone makes a racist/homophobic/prejudice remark, it calls for them to make a blanket judgement of the entire group of people they are against. It bothers me when I hear things like, "I don't hate all black people, I just hate black people who steal/murder." That is still a racist thing to say. Do you also hate white people who steal and murder? Why not just say that you hate murderers and thieves? Why does race have to be involved? I'll say it again... virtually anytime someone makes a statement that is racist/homophobic/prejudice towards a group, it requires some level of ignorance, due to the assumption that you know/understand every person who belongs to that group. Whether you are talking about gender, race, ethnicity, faith, etc. it is very rare that you can make a statement about an entire group that holds true across the board, and assuming otherwise is ignorant. If I say "I hate Asians", that makes me racist, not ignorant. Racism is ignorant. Judging a group by the color of their skin is a perfect example of ignorance. Race says nothing about a person other than that they are of that race. Actions and attitudes vary completely within all races. So to hate a race purely because of their race is showing ignorance.
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