h24dog
College Starter
Posts: 708
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Post by h24dog on Jan 20, 2014 13:09:27 GMT -5
So does that you personally celebrate Festivus? Heard of it, but am not familiar with it. So I guess that's a no.
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rey713
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The King of the 713
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Post by rey713 on Jan 20, 2014 13:25:19 GMT -5
Heard of it, but am not familiar with it. So I guess that's a no. An 11 minute video? Lol. Just explain it quickly or I'll google it.
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h24dog
College Starter
Posts: 708
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Post by h24dog on Jan 20, 2014 14:00:29 GMT -5
An 11 minute video? Lol. Just explain it quickly or I'll google it. It's Seinfeld rey,you can't explain it.If you google it,you won't get the whole joke. Just watch it
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rey713
NFL Draft pick
The King of the 713
Posts: 1,307
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Post by rey713 on Jan 20, 2014 14:38:11 GMT -5
An 11 minute video? Lol. Just explain it quickly or I'll google it. It's Seinfeld rey,you can't explain it.If you google it,you won't get the whole joke. Just watch it I still don't get it. Never was a Seinfield fan.
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Post by saskabronco on Jan 20, 2014 14:48:31 GMT -5
I agree with some of saka's post. 1. Santa is not real (duh) 2. Jesus wasn't born in December. The establishment of December 25 evolved from pagan Roman festivals held at year’s end; about the time of the winter solstice in the Northern Hemisphere. Those festivals included the Saturnalia, in honor of Saturn (god of agriculture) and the combined festivals of two sun gods, the Roman Sol and the Persian Mithra (Christmas Encyclopedia). Both birthdays were celebrated on December 25, the winter solstice according to the Julian calendar. Those pagan festivals began to be “Christianized” in the year 350, when Pope Julius I declared December 25 to be Christ’s birthday. “The Nativity gradually absorbed or supplanted all other solstice rites,” says the Encyclopedia of Religion. “Solar imagery came increasingly to be used to portray the risen Christ (who was also called Sol Invictus), and the old solar disk . . . became the halo of Christian saints. -- Now, onto what I don't agree with. 1. Shoving "religion down your throat".
I hear this silly phrase used over and over again. People like to classify the majority of Christians into this category. What exactly is "shoving it down your throat"? Where does this happen? I rarely hear other Christians "shoving their beliefs down someone's throat".
I'd just like to make a quick response to this and MOVE ON: What I DO see is pro-homosexuals shoving THEIR beliefs down other people's throats and crucifying (figuratively speaking) them if they don't accept them. If you're preaching tolerance towards gays, then be tolerant towards the beliefs of Christians. We're not killing/beating anyone for being gay (and if someone does, they are not a Jesus-imitating Christian). End of rant.-- And personally, I don't say Merry Christmas or celebrate Christmas(or Happy Holidays, because it's basically implying the same thing. No one says Happy Holidays during Thanksgiving) because it's a lie. It's based on a lie created by pagans and now turned into a cash-cow at the expense of ignorant Christians and people who celebrate it "just cause". Christians trying to make morning prayer mandatory in a public school is an example of religion being shoved down our throats. Americans wanting God included in matters of the state, such as being included on money or in the pledge of allegiance (these don't affect me as a Canadian, but they are examples). These are good examples because it shows non-believers being forced to participate in something with which they do not believe. Your example is very flawed. Homosexual marriage does not affect you. Allowing same sex marriage simply allows people of the same sex to get married. You don't have to marry a man. You don't have to attend a gay wedding. You don't have to be friends with homosexuals. IT DOESN'T AFFECT YOU. A real equivalent example of non-Christians forcing their beliefs on Christians is if non-Christians tried to make prayer illegal (not just stop it from being mandatory) or to shut down churches. What you are complaining about is simply other groups obtaining equal rights and Christians seem to be worried that they are losing their stronghold over America.
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rey713
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Post by rey713 on Jan 20, 2014 15:08:01 GMT -5
Christians trying to make morning prayer mandatory in a public school is an example of religion being shoved down our throats. Americans wanting God included in matters of the state, such as being included on money or in the pledge of allegiance (these don't affect me as a Canadian, but they are examples). These are good examples because it shows non-believers being forced to participate in something with which they do not believe. Your example is very flawed. Homosexual marriage does not affect you. Allowing same sex marriage simply allows people of the same sex to get married. You don't have to marry a man. You don't have to attend a gay wedding. You don't have to be friends with homosexuals. IT DOESN'T AFFECT YOU. A real equivalent example of non-Christians forcing their beliefs on Christians is if non-Christians tried to make prayer illegal (not just stop it from being mandatory) or to shut down churches. What you are complaining about is simply other groups obtaining equal rights and Christians seem to be worried that they are losing their stronghold over America. Fair enough. Those are good examples. And personally, I AM NOT part of that camp. Let's make that very clear. In fact, my beliefs are that we as Christians should SEPARATE ourselves from the governments of this world. We respect the human governments, but ultimately, God is our only ruler and his son Jesus Christ is the current "king" of his spiritual kingdom until a certain period of time. So that does NOT apply to me. I do NOT consider myself as part of mainstream Christianity. When I asked my question, I meant to specify about my particular religion (JW) and not Christianity in general, sorry. -- And how is my example flawed? There's pro-gays around every corner (like on these boards) trying to force me to accept homosexuality as correct. My beliefs are not in harmony with that line of thinking, and therefore sometimes I get verbally attacked for it. I do not spew hatred or call gay/homosexuals derogatory terms or threaten to kill/beat them like some people. What I'm saying is that some of the pro-gay camp preaches tolerance for their sexual preference, but attacks the beliefs of people like me who don't agree. Hypocritical, wouldn't you say?
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Post by saskabronco on Jan 20, 2014 15:31:36 GMT -5
Christians trying to make morning prayer mandatory in a public school is an example of religion being shoved down our throats. Americans wanting God included in matters of the state, such as being included on money or in the pledge of allegiance (these don't affect me as a Canadian, but they are examples). These are good examples because it shows non-believers being forced to participate in something with which they do not believe. Your example is very flawed. Homosexual marriage does not affect you. Allowing same sex marriage simply allows people of the same sex to get married. You don't have to marry a man. You don't have to attend a gay wedding. You don't have to be friends with homosexuals. IT DOESN'T AFFECT YOU. A real equivalent example of non-Christians forcing their beliefs on Christians is if non-Christians tried to make prayer illegal (not just stop it from being mandatory) or to shut down churches. What you are complaining about is simply other groups obtaining equal rights and Christians seem to be worried that they are losing their stronghold over America. Fair enough. Those are good examples. And personally, I AM NOT part of that camp. Let's make that very clear. In fact, my beliefs are that we as Christians should SEPARATE ourselves from the governments of this world. We respect the human governments, but ultimately, God is our only ruler and his son Jesus Christ is the current "king" of his spiritual kingdom until a certain period of time. So that does NOT apply to me. I do NOT consider myself as part of mainstream Christianity. When I asked my question, I meant to specify about my particular religion (JW) and not Christianity in general, sorry. -- And how is my example flawed? There's pro-gays around every corner (like on these boards) trying to force me to accept homosexuality as correct. My beliefs are not in harmony with that line of thinking, and therefore sometimes I get verbally attacked for it. I do not spew hatred or call gay/homosexuals derogatory terms or threaten to kill/beat them like some people. What I'm saying is that some of the pro-gay camp preaches tolerance for their sexual preference, but attacks the beliefs of people like me who don't agree. Hypocritical, wouldn't you say? If there are groups that are trying to make you 'like' homosexuality, then that would be a good example. Maybe that is happening in some places, but I think people are getting the push for equality confused with forcing you to 'like' it. Your views on homosexuality are your own personal business. You don't have to agree with it. No different than someone not agreeing with interracial marriage or allowing women to vote. People have every right to believe what they want. The issue is when people try to push their beliefs so that it infringes on the rights of other people. Same sex marriage, interracial marriage or women's right to vote do not infringe on other's rights whatsoever, but using your beliefs to try and prevent others from being treated as equals is infringing on their rights. In USA people have the right to freedom of religion. That means they can believe in whatever faith they want, and that also means they shouldn't have to live their lives based on the beliefs of other religions. The government is in charge of setting the standard for laws and using one faith to help determine those laws infringes on the rights of people who don't accept those beliefs to be true. I am not saying you are doing this at all. As I said before, if you simply believe that homosexuality is wrong and you don't like it, that is fine. But if you believe that it should be illegal, you are using your own views to restrict the rights of other people who don't necessarily share your beliefs and that is unconstitutional.
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Post by Jindred on Jan 20, 2014 15:33:25 GMT -5
Christians trying to make morning prayer mandatory in a public school is an example of religion being shoved down our throats. Americans wanting God included in matters of the state, such as being included on money or in the pledge of allegiance (these don't affect me as a Canadian, but they are examples). These are good examples because it shows non-believers being forced to participate in something with which they do not believe. Your example is very flawed. Homosexual marriage does not affect you. Allowing same sex marriage simply allows people of the same sex to get married. You don't have to marry a man. You don't have to attend a gay wedding. You don't have to be friends with homosexuals. IT DOESN'T AFFECT YOU. A real equivalent example of non-Christians forcing their beliefs on Christians is if non-Christians tried to make prayer illegal (not just stop it from being mandatory) or to shut down churches. What you are complaining about is simply other groups obtaining equal rights and Christians seem to be worried that they are losing their stronghold over America. Fair enough. Those are good examples. And personally, I AM NOT part of that camp. Let's make that very clear. In fact, my beliefs are that we as Christians should SEPARATE ourselves from the governments of this world. We respect the human governments, but ultimately, God is our only ruler and his son Jesus Christ is the current "king" of his spiritual kingdom until a certain period of time. So that does NOT apply to me. I do NOT consider myself as part of mainstream Christianity. When I asked my question, I meant to specify about my particular religion (JW) and not Christianity in general, sorry. -- And how is my example flawed? There's pro-gays around every corner (like on these boards) trying to force me to accept homosexuality as correct. My beliefs are not in harmony with that line of thinking, and therefore sometimes I get verbally attacked for it. I do not spew hatred or call gay/homosexuals derogatory terms or threaten to kill/beat them like some people.
What I'm saying is that some of the pro-gay camp preaches tolerance for their sexual preference, but attacks the beliefs of people like me who don't agree. Hypocritical, wouldn't you say?On this specific topic I have debated with you before. I can't speak for anyone else but I have never expected you to like, or accept homosexuality. My only point has ever been that by disallowing gay marriage, something that has no affect on you or anyone else in Christianity or any other religion/non religion you(No specifically you) are causing affect in other peoples lives. Though not you specifically there are people, largely Christian people who speak out against gay marriage and cause problems for gay people based on their beliefs. That is where I draw the line, when someone elses beliefs infringe on another persons life. Christianity should have 0 say in whether or not gay people have the right to be married unless those people want to be married in a Christian ceremony. Christianity has every right to say "no that is our thing and in our religion we don't do that". Christianity being anti-gay is affecting people who aren't even Christian which is BS. You may not do it personally, and in no way do you have to like it or even accept it, from what you say I believe YOU have the right approach to it by just simply ignoring it. I believe that is a large part of tolerating each others beliefs is ignoring them until they affect us
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rey713
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Posts: 1,307
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Post by rey713 on Jan 20, 2014 15:45:58 GMT -5
On this specific topic I have debated with you before. I can't speak for anyone else but I have never expected you to like, or accept homosexuality. My only point has ever been that by disallowing gay marriage, something that has no affect on you or anyone else in Christianity or any other religion/non religion you(No specifically you) are causing affect in other peoples lives. Though not you specifically there are people, largely Christian people who speak out against gay marriage and cause problems for gay people based on their beliefs. That is where I draw the line, when someone elses beliefs infringe on another persons life. Christianity should have 0 say in whether or not gay people have the right to be married unless those people want to be married in a Christian ceremony. Christianity has every right to say "no that is our thing and in our religion we don't do that". Christianity being anti-gay is affecting people who aren't even Christian which is BS. You may not do it personally, and in no way do you have to like it or even accept it, from what you say I believe YOU have the right approach to it by just simply ignoring it. I believe that is a large part of tolerating each others beliefs is ignoring them until they affect us Then I guess we're in agreement here. Homosexuals can live their life as they please. As a student of the Bible, I believe that it's God's responsibility to judge. All I can do as a servant of God and follower of Jesus is preach to who wants to listen. If they don't want to listen, I believe God will remember their attitude and act accordingly in the future, but again, it's not MY place. For the time being, I personally could do without homosexuality being promoted on TV and such.
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rey713
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The King of the 713
Posts: 1,307
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Post by rey713 on Jan 20, 2014 15:48:21 GMT -5
If there are groups that are trying to make you 'like' homosexuality, then that would be a good example. Maybe that is happening in some places, but I think people are getting the push for equality confused with forcing you to 'like' it. Your views on homosexuality are your own personal business. You don't have to agree with it. No different than someone not agreeing with interracial marriage or allowing women to vote. People have every right to believe what they want. The issue is when people try to push their beliefs so that it infringes on the rights of other people. Same sex marriage, interracial marriage or women's right to vote do not infringe on other's rights whatsoever, but using your beliefs to try and prevent others from being treated as equals is infringing on their rights. In USA people have the right to freedom of religion. That means they can believe in whatever faith they want, and that also means they shouldn't have to live their lives based on the beliefs of other religions. The government is in charge of setting the standard for laws and using one faith to help determine those laws infringes on the rights of people who don't accept those beliefs to be true. I am not saying you are doing this at all. As I said before, if you simply believe that homosexuality is wrong and you don't like it, that is fine. But if you believe that it should be illegal, you are using your own views to restrict the rights of other people who don't necessarily share your beliefs and that is unconstitutional. That's what I'm saying. If it's illegal, that would be a GOVERNMENT issue. All I know is in God's government, it's wrong, and I accept that. If it's legal in the US government, I'm not going to protest about it.
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