Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 0:32:29 GMT -5
I have had fun. And I like you all. But I am done. My time here is up. I will have to delete my account in the Pick Em game because I won't be back. Sorry. Once the admins start lying and editing and deleting, I'm done. Sorry Mo but you did. I like ya anyway. Maybe catch ya on the other side someday.
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Post by Divebitch on Aug 3, 2015 5:17:28 GMT -5
I have had fun. And I like you all. But I am done. My time here is up. I will have to delete my account in the Pick Em game because I won't be back. Sorry. Once the admins start lying and editing and deleting, I'm done. Sorry Mo but you did. I like ya anyway. Maybe catch ya on the other side someday. Exactly WTF happened? MarchingOn Please post it right here. I've not talked to Craig yet.
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Post by MarchingOn on Aug 3, 2015 5:45:33 GMT -5
I have had fun. And I like you all. But I am done. My time here is up. I will have to delete my account in the Pick Em game because I won't be back. Sorry. Once the admins start lying and editing and deleting, I'm done. Sorry Mo but you did. I like ya anyway. Maybe catch ya on the other side someday. Exactly WTF happened? MarchingOn Please post it right here. I've not talked to Craig yet. I get the feeling it doesn't matter what I'm about to say, because I'm skeptical you'll take my word over his, but.. - Craig wanted proof that he made a post denying the existence of institutional racism. - I responded to him, making this post. As you can see, I quoted Craig's post and I bolded and also enlarged the text where he wrote "institutional racism is bull shit". Craig responds with an accusation out of nowhere that I: 1. Edited his post (which is false) 2. Deleted the entire politics thread (which is false) Reasons why his claims are fictitious: 1. Check the post of his that I quoted on page 254 of the politics thread. It is obviously unedited, because there is no "Last edit" timestamp in the bottom right corner of the post. 2. Once anybody deletes a post, it cannot be brought back. It's gone. Not even a mod has the power to resurrect a deleted post. Soo... Yeah. Craig basically deleted his account because he totally freaked out and accused me of something that I didn't even do. He deleted for no reason. It would be cool if you could talk to him and bring him back. We have our differences but Craig's a good guy.
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Post by Divebitch on Aug 3, 2015 6:49:25 GMT -5
Thanks for the quick reply MarchingOn - Here's my prelim take... First off I believe you. Second, I think both you and Saska misinterpreted the term 'bullshit'. It does not mean that something does not exist, in spite of the fact that laws do exist. I've said it before, some people (not necessarily you) have a nasty habit of grabbing one word or term, and misinterpret it, taking it wholely out of context - dragging it by the balls until they rip off. If one took the time to see "bull Shit" in the entire context of what Craig was trying to say, they'd understand that he meant racism did indeed exist institutionally and industrially [pick one, they both work here], but it didn't work well. It is because of past racism that we now have reverse discrimination and have had it much longer than you and Saska have been alive. It took steelers54 (another *ahem* mature person ) to sort it out and get it right right there on pg 254. Some people give no credit or respect for life experience - like petulent brats accustomed to always getting their way. I can easily see how Craig was so "freaked out" - he was driven to it, and lost it. I've been victim of it recently myself. Instead of subjecting myself to the inevitable, I just avoid certain threads. Sometimes, it's still unavoidable. You don't remember the Maidenform woman. You never know where she'll turn up. Sadly half of whom I consider real friends here are now gone, and IDK what to do. Some people just don't give a flying fuck about whom or how badly they aggravate someone, and who else it may affect. I will pass all this on to him later.
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Post by saskabronco on Aug 3, 2015 7:25:51 GMT -5
Thanks for the quick reply MarchingOn - Here's my prelim take... First off I believe you. Second, I think both you and Saska misinterpreted the term 'bullshit'. It does not mean that something does not exist, in spite of the fact that laws do exist. I've said it before, some people (not necessarily you) have a nasty habit of grabbing one word or term, and misinterpret it, taking it wholely out of context - dragging it by the balls until they rip off. If one took the time to see "bull Shit" in the entire context of what Craig was trying to say, they'd understand that he meant racism did indeed exist institutionally and industrially [pick one, they both work here], but it didn't work well. It is because of past racism that we now have reverse discrimination and have had it much longer than you and Saska have been alive. It took steelers54 (another *ahem* mature person ) to sort it out and get it right right there on pg 254. Some people give no credit or respect for life experience - like petulent brats accustomed to always getting their way. I can easily see how Craig was so "freaked out" - he was driven to it, and lost it. I've been victim of it recently myself. Instead of subjecting myself to the inevitable, I just avoid certain threads. Sometimes, it's still unavoidable. You don't remember the Maidenform woman. You never know where she'll turn up. Sadly half of whom I consider real friends here are now gone, and IDK what to do. Some people just don't give a flying fuck about whom or how badly they aggravate someone, and who else it may affect. I will pass all this on to him later. I would like to see Craig and Jeff back here. I'm sure that I'm at least part of the reason they are gone and that is never my intention. I like discussing issues that I am passionate about and Craig and Jeff both fundamentally disagree with me on so many topics that we constantly get into discussions/arguments about those topics. I'll admit that both of them are incredibly frustrating to argue with for many reasons, and they would likely say the same about me, but when someone says something that you strongly disagree with on a topic you are passionate about, it's tough to leave it alone. I don't appreciate the ongoing feeling that I'm the instigator with both of them though. They are both mature adults as well and are just as capable of deciding whether or not to engage in a discussion. If they didn't want to have the discussions they were just as capable of stopping as I was. I also don't understand why they felt the need to quit the forum rather than just block me or anyone else if they didn't want to talk to us. I have a lot more that I would like to say regarding the discussion with Craig and about the insults directed at myself and some other members in your post above, but it's not worth getting into. Ultimately, these boards are a place to discuss football. The politics section is just a side bar meant for people who like discussing those issues, and that will always get heated. If people don't like that aspect of the forums, there is still the majority of the forum that can be enjoyed without engaging in political topics.
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Post by MarchingOn on Aug 3, 2015 8:01:23 GMT -5
Okay. First off, thank you for believing me and thank you in advance (and good luck) in your attempt to bring back Craig.
I won't fully respond to yourpost as that might incite further arguing when it's not needed at the moment. I will defend myself on a couple points, however.
- I did not take his words out of context. In order for a quote to qualify as being "taken out of context", the intended and/or true meaning of the quote has to be contorted. Me highlighting (and emphasizing) what I did does not twist the intended meaning of Craig's quote. His entire post is basically detailing how "there was no racism" at Legoland where he used to work. Nothing in Craig's entire post disagrees with/contradicts the quote I highlighted.
- Life (personal) experience is objectively anecdotal in and of itself. That means the experience of one person does not always indicate how things actually are in the grand scheme. You need comprehensive research and, if necessary, statistics to conclude how the majority of people experience certain things.
If you wish to discuss any of this further, you can PM me or respond in the politics thread. Again, I don't want to incite more arguing right here.
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Post by Divebitch on Aug 3, 2015 8:35:53 GMT -5
I would like to see Craig and Jeff back here. I'm sure that I'm at least part of the reason they are gone and that is never my intention. I like discussing issues that I am passionate about and Craig and Jeff both fundamentally disagree with me on so many topics that we constantly get into discussions/arguments about those topics. I'll admit that both of them are incredibly frustrating to argue with for many reasons, and they would likely say the same about me, but when someone says something that you strongly disagree with on a topic you are passionate about, it's tough to leave it alone. I don't appreciate the ongoing feeling that I'm the instigator with both of them though. They are both mature adults as well and are just as capable of deciding whether or not to engage in a discussion. If they didn't want to have the discussions they were just as capable of stopping as I was. I also don't understand why they felt the need to quit the forum rather than just block me or anyone else if they didn't want to talk to us. I have a lot more that I would like to say regarding the discussion with Craig and about the insults directed at myself and some other members in your post above, but it's not worth getting into. Ultimately, these boards are a place to discuss football. The politics section is just a side bar meant for people who like discussing those issues, and that will always get heated. If people don't like that aspect of the forums, there is still the majority of the forum that can be enjoyed without engaging in political topics. I didn't hear you once address that you misinterpreted what 'bullshit' meant. Something I caught quickly, even before reading Steeler54's post, who also caught it quick. Talk about a brick wall - you're right, many feel the same about you. And I started off being very 'Saska-friendly', almost a fan, as we share a fave team and religious views. That's a lot. Some of my best friends from here are very, very religious. With maturity comes knowing when to pick your arguments - knowing some things are not subject to it. And if you do, how to do it respectfully. With friendships I've had for 5 years (and not just here, but in leagues like the OGs vs. NGs where it was intense interaction every week ), you get to know people a lot better than you can probably imagine, and I don't wanna upset my friends. It's not taboo, but I tread lightly. I care about them. They know I don't believe in God, and they are still my friends. Do you get that? Saska pg 254: "I was wrong when I said your are trying to prove racism does not exist. What I meant, and what I've constantly been saying to you is the issue of racism being a deeply engrained issue across America, which you constantly deny. So I will accept that you are not denying racism in general.
My entire point in that statement was that you use silly individual cases where something different than the norm happens and you try and use that to justify your view that racism is not really a serious issue in America. That is called anecdotal evidence and it is of zero value in a discussion about deeply seeded racism issues across America.
If you want to keep your head up your own ass on this issue, go right ahead, but stop trying to drag the rest of us up there with you."1) Craig is not the only one, 2) I did not mention anyone else but MO, and 3) you are disrespectful beyond belief. And you are way off-base on "anecdoctal evidence". Some are more powerful than others. And just because someone doesn't wanna bother with exact dates, stats, etc. with regard to stuff like educational admissions and $$$ grants, employment racial quotas, etc. does NOT mean it is anecdotal with no merit "zero value" fer chrissakes. We have lived it for a long long time. You have not. I'm not expecting much here, aside from escalating an pointless argument. Yes, they are adults and could walk away. But ask yourself why them and not you? Why did it reach this point?
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h24dog
College Starter
Posts: 708
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Post by h24dog on Aug 3, 2015 8:56:19 GMT -5
Tough to wake up and read this news this morning. So sad
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Post by Divebitch on Aug 3, 2015 9:01:06 GMT -5
Okay. First off, thank you for believing me and thank you in advance (and good luck) in your attempt to bring back Craig. I won't fully respond to your post as that might incite further arguing when it's not needed at the moment. I will defend myself on a couple points, however. - I did not take his words out of context. In order for a quote to qualify as being "taken out of context", the intended and/or true meaning of the quote has to be contorted. Me highlighting (and emphasizing) what I did does not twist the intended meaning of Craig's quote. His entire post is basically detailing how "there was no racism" at Legoland where he used to work. Nothing in Craig's entire post disagrees with/contradicts the quote I highlighted. - Life (personal) experience is objectively anecdotal in and of itself. That means the experience of one person does not always indicate how things actually are in the grand scheme. You need comprehensive research and, if necessary, statistics to conclude how the majority of people experience certain things.If you wish to discuss any of this further, you can PM me or respond in the politics thread. Again, I don't want to incite more arguing right here. Thanks, and I have no issue with you. Sorry, don't wanna PM on this now. I want it out in the open, it's important to me. Legoland seemed just one example. And correct, everyone made the same money. All lower echelon I suppose. He did mentioned a case of reverse discrimination, a job he didn't get. Lemme re-iterate, as my post above. I appreciate the point about 'anecdotal'. But some carry more value and weight than others. Not playing tit for tat here (most of you have probably heard my history before), but my anecdotal on certain topics (not everything) trumps yours and certainly Saska's, coming from a small city outside the U.S.. Anyway, was not intended to incite further anything. lol I just wanted to know what happened. Cuz I know Craig, and he is not a loose cannon. He may have made a mistake. EDIT: saskabronco I appreciate your wanting them back here. Maybe I was too rough on you. Understand that it may not happen, and I'm very upset. Their leaving puts me in a sorta 'rock and hard place' situation. And I'm under a bit of stress with my upcoming trip to Asia for 3 weeks, probably very limited net access. EDIT: Reverse discrimination isn't limited to racial - sex too. Mgmt strongly encouraged me to apply for News Manager and Regional Sales, as women were at that time (early 90's). This is a huuuge NYC based publishing company - 10's of thousands of employees. They bent over backwards to move women up to low-mid level mgmt. Whoever said that high level mgmt was still more exclusive to white males was correct. Maybe diff today. But reverse discrimination at low levels was like a loophole for many big companies that were still 'old school'.
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Post by MrCincinnati on Aug 3, 2015 9:26:36 GMT -5
Wow first Jeff and now Craig. What is going on here? And right when football season is about to start right around the corner no less.
Its ironic that the politics section is the reason though that both guys left now. Personally I think that section is doing more damage than good right now and needs to be considered being locked down for a week, month, or deleted all together. My suggestion of getting rid of the politics section may be out of line, but even footballsfuture doesn't allow any talks of politics whatsoever fearing that it cause too many problems.
Craig if you are reading this, i'm going to say the same thing I sort of said to Jeff. You will be missed and taking a break from here is probably a good idea for you now. When or if you decided to come back though you will be welcomed back in open arms. And as I said before, I believe you and Jeff will be back at some point.
PS-Sorry that you don't want to join the pickem game anymore. I already removed from the list as you requested though. Your welcomed to join back anytime though, as well as Jeff
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