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Post by Jancey on Jun 29, 2015 1:54:39 GMT -5
And I don't get Christians freaking out so horribly about gay marriage while they're divorcing each other and having pre-marital relations, etc. The reason is because they can call out gays because they're not gay themselves so it's easy to point that sin out, but they're likely living a lifestyle they know is wrong like the aforementioned so they just forget about it altogether so they can continue to live their lifestyle. Like you mentioned the other day, why refuse service to gays but serve all other kinds of non-Christians. I agree with you, it's illogical. But it's because they don't want to face their own sin. And modern day churches are a big part of the problem.
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Post by saskabronco on Jun 29, 2015 5:36:11 GMT -5
I have a question for saska. You say you read the bible. Old testiment or new, or both? And how long did it take you? A week? Two weeks? I went to a Catholic school so we studied the bible all the time. Then when I was in university I decided that I should read the whole thing over again. This was after I had given up on Catholicism but I thought I should read it over to see if it made more sense now that I was older and could understand things better. I read the Old Testament then and I don't remember how long it took me. It was quite a while because it is terribly boring. Then I took a course in Religious Studies called Jesus The Christ, dedicated to studying the New Testament and the life of Jesus. I didn't just quit religion because I'm a rebel or something. I gave it several chances and put a lot of time and effort into trying to understand it. I came out of that attempt to understand it with more questions that could not be answered and more criticisms of the beliefs and actions of Christianity. I don't know why it matters how long it took me to read the books. Does it make a difference if I read it too fast or too slow?
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Post by saskabronco on Jun 29, 2015 5:54:48 GMT -5
saskabronco Stop telling people to shut the fuck up. They have the right to state their opinions thats the point of an open forum, and you telling them to shut the fuck up makes you and your argument look childish. I don't care if you are tired of reading it, you have the choice to stop reading it and responding the same as everyone else. Telling people to shut the fuck up doesn't do any good, it makes peoples minds shut off to your argument cause you are just acting like an asshole towards them at that point. It just turns things down the wrong road. Yea I get it, its frustrating discussing these things, and you are passionate about it, but you can still do it in a civil manner. I don't care how wrong you think they are, or how annoyed you are at them not seeing your point, some people just aren't going to, get over it. Stop being a dick about it, and stop telling people to shut the fuck up. Being hateful back doesn't solve the issue. In other words, discuss things without being a dick, or shut the fuck up I know it's not productive and I know it's a dick move. I honestly don't really care. I've been having the exact same discussions with Craig and Jeff for years now and they just repeat the same tired old stuff over and over. No issue is going to get resolved with them, regardless of how I approach things. I don't expect them to change their minds to agree with me, but I would love to just see them stop saying the same old ignorant, harmful bs that they have been saying regarding things like racism, homosexuality, politics, etc. Understanding that it's never going to happen, if they are going to be dicks, then I might as well also. At least it gives us something new to talk about for a change.
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Post by saskabronco on Jun 29, 2015 6:09:49 GMT -5
You seriously don't understand me at all... First of all, I don't have a book, I don't believe in sin, but I do believe in doing wrong. Cheating is a breach of trust regardless if you get caught. I don't need a book to tell me that, it's common sense. I have never and don't ever plan on cheating on anyone, and not because the bible says so. The bible also says eating shellfish is a sin. So is premarital sex. So is shaving your beard or getting a tattoo. Yet Christians do that shit all the time. So why is homosexuality so bad but all of those other things written in the same book are no longer seen as sinful? It's because the book doesn't mean shit. People determine what they want to do and not let others do, not God. It's a book written and interpreted by men. I'm no less moral than you or any other Christians, and I don't give a shit what the bible says. Morality is doing what is best for humanity, not holding back from doing bad because God said so. Laws of the old testament were given to Israelites and no longer apply. When Christ came, there was a new covenant and the laws were essentially condensed into love the Lord your God and love the neighbor as yourself. The Israelites were told to not eat pork, shellfish, etc because it was unclean and there were ceremonial things like this in remembrance that a savior was to come. And it was to set Israel apart from the other pagan countries. When Christ came, he fulfilled the law and now we no longer have to do the things they did to be reminded of the savior's coming, but now we abide by the new covenant in celebration that he has already come. It also doesn't mean that all the laws of the of the old testament are just gone now like homosexuality, etc. The bible makes clear that it's a sinful lifestyle, while it never says eating pork, etc is a sin. As far as gay marriage though, I personally lean towards libertarian rather than Republican, and have mixed feelings. As a Christian, I hate to see what I view as sinful being viewed as perfectly fine and great, but that goes for all kinds of things in the world not just this. But I also believe in your liberty to live your life however you want to. I absolutely do not believe that this was a decision that the supreme Court has the right to make. I think the government shouldn't be involved in marriage. Straight people and gay people should both have a right to sign a contract with each other and marry, but the federal government needs to stop being so involved in everything in our lives. time.com/3939374/rand-paul-gay-marriage-supreme-court/Who determines which Old Testament laws are gone and which ones remain in tact? If it's anyone other than God's direct words, then all divinity has been stripped from those laws the second anyone else decided what stays and what goes. I have a serious problem with any lord or creator making "loving him" a law of the land. That is terribly petty and egotistical for someone as all knowing and all powerful to do. That points to serious self esteem issues, when someone creates something and then forces his entire creation to love him. If that God did exist (which he absolutely does not) he is by no means perfect, benevolent, omniscient, loving, etc. As for the Supreme Court ruling on the issue of gay marriage. They absolutely should have done what they did. I agree that they have no place being so involved in everyone's life, and what they did was get rid of a stupid law that was restricting people's freedom. Had they ruled the other way, I would have said that they have no right to make that decision because they would be deciding to withhold rights from specific individuals. But given that their decision was for equality and allowing people the freedom to decide for themselves whether or not they would like to get married, libertarians should be excited about the decision. You guys want government to stay out of things and that's exactly what they decided to do... Take away the ability to outlaw something that the government has no right outlawing in the first place. If that ruling didn't clash with what the bible says on homosexuality, libertarians would be super excited about what just happened in America. I don't get Rand Paul. He is running for president on the idea that government shouldn't do anything. But you know that once he gets into power (which probably won't happen) he is going to do all sorts of things. He wants the power to push his beliefs and ideas, and I can guarantee that he would not just come in and cut his own power cord. He is a religious nut who beliefs the U.S. was founded on Christian principles and that American rights come directly from the creator (as per the article you posted).
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2015 10:30:53 GMT -5
Saska I was just wondering if you read it as you said or if you studied it. Sounds like you studied it a lot. You are a lot like my son in law. He kind of went thru the same thing and came to the same conclusion as you. I was just wondering that is all. No hidden agenda or anything.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2015 11:33:34 GMT -5
saskabronco Stop telling people to shut the fuck up. They have the right to state their opinions thats the point of an open forum, and you telling them to shut the fuck up makes you and your argument look childish. I don't care if you are tired of reading it, you have the choice to stop reading it and responding the same as everyone else. Telling people to shut the fuck up doesn't do any good, it makes peoples minds shut off to your argument cause you are just acting like an asshole towards them at that point. It just turns things down the wrong road. Yea I get it, its frustrating discussing these things, and you are passionate about it, but you can still do it in a civil manner. I don't care how wrong you think they are, or how annoyed you are at them not seeing your point, some people just aren't going to, get over it. Stop being a dick about it, and stop telling people to shut the fuck up. Being hateful back doesn't solve the issue. In other words, discuss things without being a dick, or shut the fuck up I know it's not productive and I know it's a dick move. I honestly don't really care. I've been having the exact same discussions with Craig and Jeff for years now and they just repeat the same tired old stuff over and over. No issue is going to get resolved with them, regardless of how I approach things. I don't expect them to change their minds to agree with me, but I would love to just see them stop saying the same old ignorant, harmful bs that they have been saying regarding things like racism, homosexuality, politics, etc. Understanding that it's never going to happen, if they are going to be dicks, then I might as well also. At least it gives us something new to talk about for a change. That's funny you say that. Just a few days ago Marlene and I who have been together for twenty years and a friend of twenty years were talking. We have all heard each others stories over and over. So we decided we need new stories or new friends. LOL. I have heard "a book of fairy tales written my man" over and over again also. New stories or new friends needed?
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Post by Jindred on Jun 29, 2015 12:14:45 GMT -5
I know it's not productive and I know it's a dick move. I honestly don't really care. I've been having the exact same discussions with Craig and Jeff for years now and they just repeat the same tired old stuff over and over. No issue is going to get resolved with them, regardless of how I approach things. I don't expect them to change their minds to agree with me, but I would love to just see them stop saying the same old ignorant, harmful bs that they have been saying regarding things like racism, homosexuality, politics, etc. Understanding that it's never going to happen, if they are going to be dicks, then I might as well also. At least it gives us something new to talk about for a change. And whats your half in that? You respond with the same basic stuff too. And of course they are going to say the same stuff, they are both stubborn old men who have their minds made up about the world. They are on here to post shit, so they are going to keep posting it, thats not going to change. Your being a dick to them and telling them to shut up isn't going to get them to stop, in fact its likely going to get them with their backs up against a wall where they hold even tighter to what they believe. You want to oppose what you deem as ignorant harmful BS, good, then oppose it and give people something positive to read. Being hateful in return to it just breeds more hate, and it takes away from your posts.
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Post by Juggs on Jun 29, 2015 12:53:57 GMT -5
]He is running for president on the idea that government shouldn't do anything. But you know that once he gets into power (which probably won't happen) he is going to do all sorts of things. He wants the power to push his beliefs and ideas, and I can guarantee that he would not just come in and cut his own power cord. He is a religious nut who beliefs the U.S. was founded on Christian principles and that American rights come directly from the creator (as per the article you posted). When liberals need to do something or get power, they declare that no one can do anything other than what they think because the opposite is intolerant. When conservatives need to do the same, they claim that the government is overreaching (with a side dish of "god personally told me to do so"). Neither excuse is very valid.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2015 17:49:28 GMT -5
Well I see where I stand in here. Of course I didnt post anything in here to be told to shut the fuck up or to be called a dick,or to even argue with Saska.
I thought I was just exercising my rights as a human being and an American. Hence the reason why these posts are even made in the first place,right? Blacks feel like they dont have rights,and gays feel like they dont have rights,..Yet,the very thing that they are fighting for,Iam told as a heterosexual,pro life,pro gun,Christian,Southern redneck...That I dont count. My opinion and beliefs dont count.
As a Christian....God does not want me to argue his word. Only to stand on his word. Iam sorry you have so much hatred for God,and Iam sorry that hatred trickles down to Christians.
As a human being...You are being no different (towards Christians and Southerners,like me who have the same beliefs as I do),as a true racist,and a true bigot is towards gays and blacks.
Need I remind you that I have an african american neice,an african american daughter in law,and an african american granddaughter.
Not that you need to know this,but I lived with a gay person for a year.
As a southern redneck,who likes to hunt,fish,shoot guns,ride horses,go muddin,drink beer,and shoot pool....You ...saska....Can kiss my redneck ass.
Im done with this BS.
MO...Find out your damn self about the civil war. I get the feeling that it wont matter what the hell I post it would be wrong in you and saska's eyes. Not gonna waste my time. Its not my job to teach you something,its your job to learn it.
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Post by Juggs on Jun 29, 2015 18:07:04 GMT -5
haha yes white christians are totally the Americans on the defense Jeff. As one, I can laugh at how absurd that is. When is the last time you were discriminated against I wonder? Was it today? Do you think that someone being rude to you on the internet is the same as being discriminated against? This is what people mean when they talk about white privilege.
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