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Post by steelersfan4life56 on Nov 24, 2014 11:48:45 GMT -5
Dangit I had a whole thing on why Terry should be ranked above Big Ben, hit the wrong key and it's down the drain and I don't want to write another novel this morning. Anyway, suffice it to say I agree with bears. Other than superbowl wins I don't see how. Physically Ben is better as well as mentally. Let's not forget Bradshaw had some very good receivers including two hall of famers and an excellent OL. The closet Ben ever had to that was when he had Ward, Holmes, and Wallace at the same time.
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Post by gobolts25 on Nov 24, 2014 12:27:00 GMT -5
Dangit I had a whole thing on why Terry should be ranked above Big Ben, hit the wrong key and it's down the drain and I don't want to write another novel this morning. Anyway, suffice it to say I agree with bears. Other than superbowl wins I don't see how. Physically Ben is better as well as mentally. Let's not forget Bradshaw had some very good receivers including two hall of famers and an excellent OL. The closet Ben ever had to that was when he had Ward, Holmes, and Wallace at the same time. OK, here's attempt #2... Stallworth and Swann were very good, but I wouldn't class them as among the greatest of all time. Terry also had one of probably the three greatest and longest-lived defenses of all time behind him, along with the two Doomsday defenses. And he had Franco and Bleier to provide the ground-and-pound. But he's vastly underrated as a leader. There's only one other QB I can think of who compared in terms of never-say-die attitude and sheer will to win, and that's Fran Tarkenton...eh, maybe Staubach and the Snake would be close. His team would walk into fire for him. Yeah, Ben is bigger, stronger, smarter...and he's not even half the leader Terry was.
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Post by steelersfan4life56 on Nov 24, 2014 12:56:25 GMT -5
Other than superbowl wins I don't see how. Physically Ben is better as well as mentally. Let's not forget Bradshaw had some very good receivers including two hall of famers and an excellent OL. The closet Ben ever had to that was when he had Ward, Holmes, and Wallace at the same time. OK, here's attempt #2... Stallworth and Swann were very good, but I wouldn't class them as among the greatest of all time. Terry also had one of probably the three greatest and longest-lived defenses of all time behind him, along with the two Doomsday defenses. And he had Franco and Bleier to provide the ground-and-pound. But he's vastly underrated as a leader. There's only one other QB I can think of who compared in terms of never-say-die attitude and sheer will to win, and that's Fran Tarkenton...eh, maybe Staubach and the Snake would be close. His team would walk into fire for him. Yeah, Ben is bigger, stronger, smarter...and he's not even half the leader Terry was. Swann maybe not unless it was playofftime, But however an argument could be made for Stallworth. Still, having both will certainly help any offense. I'm not trying to under rate Bradshaw because he already gets the short end of the stick when it comes to QBs of his era. Both he and Ben are similar in that regard as well as many other ways. Bradshaw had his "un-leader like" moments just like Ben, maybe not to the same extent, but there was a reason he and Coach Noll were never that close and wasn't exactly pleased with the team for a while. I'd consider Ben a leader by example, being able to get the knocked down over and over and still perform, and has been more of a vocal leader the last few seasons as well.
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Post by bears75 on Nov 24, 2014 17:01:06 GMT -5
Your passion is refreshing. I don't know of any Ernie Stoutner. A case could be made for Eddie StAutner. He began playing in 1950 and at 6'1 230 lbs I'm not sure how he'd fair in the trenches against against much bigger O-lines.
Bradshaw did lead his team to 4 super bowl victories so that must count for something. Big Ben could catch him but he isn't quite there yet.
Frank Varrichione would have made the team if not for spending the last 5 seasons with the Rams.
I beg to differ on Lloyd. He was a 5 time pro bowler and 3 time all pro 1st teamer. Man how soon the fans forget.
I could understand a case for John Henry Johnson as a 5th running back, but not ahead of Parker and I have no idea who McNally is???
How many pro bowls did Olehoffen go to with the Steelers? I don't remember any.
Holmes was on par skill wise with Dunn but played 65 less games.
Marvel Smith was slighty more productive but played 41 fewer games. He was considered.
I agree with you on Walden. I've moved Josh Miller to the backup punter
Troy Polamalu has slipped a bit the past two seasons. Barring injury he'll likely be roughly even with Donnie Shell by season's end.
Your case against Polamalu is because he has slipped the past two seasons? A lot of players do that. Emmitt Smith did at the end of his career. So did Bradshaw, Ward, Harrison, Aaron Smith, James Farrior, etc. That doesn't take away from Polamalu being the best Strong Safety of his generation and far better than Shell ever was. This is the All Time Roster isn't it? And yes, it IS Ernie Stautner (typo there with the o instead of the a). Not Eddie Stautner. www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.aspx?PLAYER_ID=202Nope, my case against Polamalu is that if he hadn't slipped he'd have already passed Shell. Don't get me wrong Polamalu is a great player and deserves to be in the HOF someday. But so does Donnie Shell. He had 51 career interceptions!! Troy P has 32. Shell recovered 19 fumbles!! Troy P recovered 7.
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Post by bears75 on Nov 24, 2014 17:12:05 GMT -5
You also forgot safety/corner Jack Butler. This is a 53 man roster. There are a ton of good Steeler players, just no room for all of them.
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Post by cityofchamps on Nov 24, 2014 18:08:00 GMT -5
Your case against Polamalu is because he has slipped the past two seasons? A lot of players do that. Emmitt Smith did at the end of his career. So did Bradshaw, Ward, Harrison, Aaron Smith, James Farrior, etc. That doesn't take away from Polamalu being the best Strong Safety of his generation and far better than Shell ever was. This is the All Time Roster isn't it? And yes, it IS Ernie Stautner (typo there with the o instead of the a). Not Eddie Stautner. www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.aspx?PLAYER_ID=202Nope, my case against Polamalu is that if he hadn't slipped he'd have already passed Shell. Don't get me wrong Polamalu is a great player and deserves to be in the HOF someday. But so does Donnie Shell. He had 51 career interceptions!! Troy P has 32. Shell recovered 19 fumbles!! Troy P recovered 7. Again, you only look at stats. Shell also had Greene, Lambert, Ham, Blount, Greenwood, and Dwight White on his Defenses. Troy didn't have nearly that many Hall of Famers to play with (Greenwood and White could make their cases for the HOF, but "there are already too many 70s Steelers in there already"). Troy is the only player I would put in the Hall of Fame from his Defenses other than Casey Hampton (Harrison has the talent, but not the resume as he started off too late to be realistically considered). Troy also has a Defensive Player of the Year Award. Does Shell? Nope.
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Post by steelersfan4life56 on Nov 24, 2014 21:45:36 GMT -5
Your case against Polamalu is because he has slipped the past two seasons? A lot of players do that. Emmitt Smith did at the end of his career. So did Bradshaw, Ward, Harrison, Aaron Smith, James Farrior, etc. That doesn't take away from Polamalu being the best Strong Safety of his generation and far better than Shell ever was. This is the All Time Roster isn't it? And yes, it IS Ernie Stautner (typo there with the o instead of the a). Not Eddie Stautner. www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.aspx?PLAYER_ID=202Nope, my case against Polamalu is that if he hadn't slipped he'd have already passed Shell. Don't get me wrong Polamalu is a great player and deserves to be in the HOF someday. But so does Donnie Shell. He had 51 career interceptions!! Troy P has 32. Shell recovered 19 fumbles!! Troy P recovered 7. It's hard to explain but Polamalu's affect on the game went far beyond stats. The man just did thing no one else possibly could. He was just a freak.
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Post by steelersfan4life56 on Nov 24, 2014 21:47:04 GMT -5
Nope, my case against Polamalu is that if he hadn't slipped he'd have already passed Shell. Don't get me wrong Polamalu is a great player and deserves to be in the HOF someday. But so does Donnie Shell. He had 51 career interceptions!! Troy P has 32. Shell recovered 19 fumbles!! Troy P recovered 7. Again, you only look at stats. Shell also had Greene, Lambert, Ham, Blount, Greenwood, and Dwight White on his Defenses. Troy didn't have nearly that many Hall of Famers to play with (Greenwood and White could make their cases for the HOF, but "there are already too many 70s Steelers in there already"). Troy is the only player I would put in the Hall of Fame from his Defenses other than Casey Hampton (Harrison has the talent, but not the resume as he started off too late to be realistically considered). Troy also has a Defensive Player of the Year Award. Does Shell? Nope. Well Aaron Smith should be in the HOF. Best 3-4 DE of his era.
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Post by steelersfan4life56 on Nov 24, 2014 21:51:54 GMT -5
You also forgot safety/corner Jack Butler. This is a 53 man roster. There are a ton of good Steeler players, just no room for all of them. You're right, Jack Butler over Ike Taylor would be a no brainer.
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Post by cantonhall34 on Nov 24, 2014 22:18:41 GMT -5
Other than superbowl wins I don't see how. Physically Ben is better as well as mentally. Let's not forget Bradshaw had some very good receivers including two hall of famers and an excellent OL. The closet Ben ever had to that was when he had Ward, Holmes, and Wallace at the same time. OK, here's attempt #2... Stallworth and Swann were very good, but I wouldn't class them as among the greatest of all time. Terry also had one of probably the three greatest and longest-lived defenses of all time behind him, along with the two Doomsday defenses. And he had Franco and Bleier to provide the ground-and-pound. But he's vastly underrated as a leader. There's only one other QB I can think of who compared in terms of never-say-die attitude and sheer will to win, and that's Fran Tarkenton...eh, maybe Staubach and the Snake would be close. His team would walk into fire for him. Yeah, Ben is bigger, stronger, smarter...and he's not even half the leader Terry was. Stallworth was always the better player if you listen to the guys that played on the team with them both. Swann was a phenomenal athlete and big game performer but as one old-time Steelers player once said: "Swann was great but Stall was the guy..." Nothing against Bradshaw or Tarkenton, but it's actually the other way around. I'm not sure how anyone can say Staubach wasn't the better player, stats be damned. He's at least a top 10 QB all time, if not top five, so saying he wasn't at the level of Tarkenton or Bradshaw is way off.
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