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Post by awesomeace on Jul 21, 2014 13:09:57 GMT -5
He said something like "if you get knocked down seven times, get up eight times" My daughter went and looked it up. She had never heard that before and it is an old Chinese saying. I might not have the words exactly right. Freaked her out. I wouldnt trust google translator... I once translated pokemon trainer from english to chinese and then had my mom read ut. Came out as poke monster fairy or something like that
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Post by Jindred on Jul 21, 2014 13:44:53 GMT -5
I would think reincarnation lessens the value of a life. And lessens the value of the human soul. I don't see how it lessens anything.. I guess it depends how you value a life, to me the value of life is just living it and experiencing it. If I could try a 1000 different lives to me each one is as valuable as the last, as its a different experience. As far as the value of a soul how does it make it less valuable? What value is there in a soul other than its ability to bring life? If a soul isn't giving life to something what is it doing? If anything life is what gives the soul value.
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Post by Divebitch on Jul 21, 2014 13:53:11 GMT -5
I would think reincarnation lessens the value of a life. And lessens the value of the human soul. Depends on the value you put on any life. If I truly believed in reincarnation and that everything had a soul, I might think my soul were no better or more important than a mouse, even cockroach. Survival instinct tells every animal their life if more important than anything else. But humans have the supremacy to be ahead of the game - in most situations, if prepared. There are a lot of tortured human souls out there. You are right on Mork. Its no different than my old job that I had 4 years ago. Boss fired me for calling him a fat MFer. Compnay policy said that I should not have done that. In the hand book. Its their right to fire me. Its my right to say it. Nothing I could do...even though hes called me worse. Would be the same as someone coming to my house dropping F bombs everywhere. He has the right to say it,but not in my house. I have the right to not hear it. It doesn't have to be in the handbook. It's amazing (not meaning you) how many people think they have rights in the private workplace, and the arguments how they were treated unfair, etc. They have no idea the only recourse you have is if you can effectively enough demonstrate they fired you for 1 of 4 things - age, sex, race, or disability discrimination. IOW, say they fired you cuz you were late and absent x times, you didn't meet quota. If someone else has been late and absent more than you, less productive, you have NO recourse unless 1 of the 4. I would think reincarnation lessens the value of a life. And lessens the value of the human soul. I don't see how it lessens anything.. I guess it depends how you value a life, Not copying you, actually started typing this 1/2 hour ago, got interrupted. haha Seems we're of the same mindset here.
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Post by Morkim on Jul 21, 2014 14:08:03 GMT -5
I would think reincarnation lessens the value of a life. And lessens the value of the human soul. I don't see how it lessens anything.. I guess it depends how you value a life, to me the value of life is just living it and experiencing it. If I could try a 1000 different lives to me each one is as valuable as the last, as its a different experience. As far as the value of a soul how does it make it less valuable? What value is there in a soul other than its ability to bring life? If a soul isn't giving life to something what is it doing? If anything life is what gives the soul value. I suppose maybe I'm being cynical. But to me, to believe in reincarnation lessens the value of human life. Why? Because it means death isn't the end. So maybe it's not so bad that so and so killed his wife, or child, or a stranger. Because they'll be reincarnated and have another go, right? Don't take this as me critiquing you Jindred, because honestly, I'm not saying it's not possible. I just think it cheapens the life we have now. As to the human soul, the idea of a soul being reincarnated into what boils down to a dumb animal is odd to me. And how would you explain the surges in the human population? I mean, it's growing at such a rate it's almost crazy to think souls are not unique right? I don't know numbers right now, but I would say we have a few billion more people now than we did 150 years ago. Where are the extra souls coming from?
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Post by Divebitch on Jul 21, 2014 14:34:47 GMT -5
I suppose maybe I'm being cynical. But to me, to believe in reincarnation lessens the value of human life. Why? Because it means death isn't the end. So maybe it's not so bad that so and so killed his wife, or child, or a stranger. Because they'll be reincarnated and have another go, right? Don't take this as me critiquing you Jindred, because honestly, I'm not saying it's not possible. I just think it cheapens the life we have now. As to the human soul, the idea of a soul being reincarnated into what boils down to a dumb animal is odd to me. And how would you explain the surges in the human population? I mean, it's growing at such a rate it's almost crazy to think souls are not unique right? I don't know numbers right now, but I would say we have a few billion more people now than we did 150 years ago. Where are the extra souls coming from? Lemme premise this by saying I have zero beliefs in anything involving reincarnation. But if I did, there are old souls and new souls. As far as 'dumb animals', they each have a purpose and I'm sure they don't feel they suffer for their lack of intelligence. lol As I said, there are a lot of living tortured souls that might prefer to come back as a lapdog or a whale. To experience unconditional love or at peace in a pod with freedom. Who are we to judge? But I don't think the idea/hope would be to come back as a smarter, better-looking, more financial successful version of a human being (not that you think that. It's all strange to me, something everyone has their own ideas about. We will never really know.
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Post by saskabronco on Jul 21, 2014 14:35:07 GMT -5
I don't see how it lessens anything.. I guess it depends how you value a life, to me the value of life is just living it and experiencing it. If I could try a 1000 different lives to me each one is as valuable as the last, as its a different experience. As far as the value of a soul how does it make it less valuable? What value is there in a soul other than its ability to bring life? If a soul isn't giving life to something what is it doing? If anything life is what gives the soul value. I suppose maybe I'm being cynical. But to me, to believe in reincarnation lessens the value of human life. Why? Because it means death isn't the end. So maybe it's not so bad that so and so killed his wife, or child, or a stranger. Because they'll be reincarnated and have another go, right? Don't take this as me critiquing you Jindred, because honestly, I'm not saying it's not possible. I just think it cheapens the life we have now. As to the human soul, the idea of a soul being reincarnated into what boils down to a dumb animal is odd to me. And how would you explain the surges in the human population? I mean, it's growing at such a rate it's almost crazy to think souls are not unique right? I don't know numbers right now, but I would say we have a few billion more people now than we did 150 years ago. Where are the extra souls coming from? Would that same mindset mean that any belief in the afterlife lessens the value of human life? By your description, an atheist should have the greatest appreciation for life because we only get one shot (as far as we know). Someone who thinks heaven is waiting for them would be more likely to put their life at risk (ie. fighting a war) for something they believe in because they have paradise awaiting. I would not fight in a war unless the safety of myself and my family was in immediate danger because my life is worth more to me than to throw it away because a few politicians can't agree on something and I don't believe I've got paradise waiting for me on the other end. In his film, Religulous, Bill Maher made a funny/interesting comment to one religious guy who raved on about how amazing heaven would be. Maher said, "you believe you go to paradise when you die?" The guy said "Yes." Maher said, "Then why don't you just kill yourself?" Now I know Maher comes across as an asshole again here, and I get why religious don't just commit suicide (because the church said suicide is a sin punishable by an eternity in hell, otherwise everyone would want to commit suicide), but Maher makes a good point. If paradise awaits you and all that stands in your way is this apparently crappy, sinful life, then why wouldn't everyone just do everything they can to die honorably? Run into a burning house to save a child... Join the army and stop the 'terrorists'... Fly Malaysian airlines and figure out what the hell is going on there (too soon?)... Why the hell would anyone want to keep living if you could die a hero and then enjoy paradise.
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Post by saskabronco on Jul 21, 2014 14:47:12 GMT -5
You all are all over the place. How in the world has this turned into a religion debate again? LOL. Anyway...As far as the reincarnation thing...some believe that each life is a step towards a higher dimension,and ultimately reaching the highest which is heaven. I dunno. And as far as the subject at hand....I disagree with the gay lifestyle 100 percent and I agree with freedom of speech 100 and 10 percent. Freedom of speech should not come with a cost because that cost has already been paid. But this guy here...this coach....In my opinion went too far with his statement because it involved getting rid of a certain kind of people...which is wrong no matter how you look at it. It would be nice if that same standard was held towards all groups of people. I wish no harm on anyone...including Barry Soetoro. Unless people wish me harm...then theres another story. I will get you before you get me. What do you expect? It's a religion/politics thread talking about homosexuality... you know how those always end up lol. Surprisingly, I agree with most of your post, except of course the views on homosexuality where we differ 100%. But you have every right to disagree with it... The thing that sets me off is when people think they have the right to push for laws that make it illegal (marriage included) just because they have a personal disagreement with it. As for the freedom of speech, couldn't agree more. That coach has every right to say whatever he wants. He just needs to be ready to deal with the consequences of the hateful crap that he says.
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Post by Morkim on Jul 21, 2014 15:01:40 GMT -5
I suppose maybe I'm being cynical. But to me, to believe in reincarnation lessens the value of human life. Why? Because it means death isn't the end. So maybe it's not so bad that so and so killed his wife, or child, or a stranger. Because they'll be reincarnated and have another go, right? Don't take this as me critiquing you Jindred, because honestly, I'm not saying it's not possible. I just think it cheapens the life we have now. As to the human soul, the idea of a soul being reincarnated into what boils down to a dumb animal is odd to me. And how would you explain the surges in the human population? I mean, it's growing at such a rate it's almost crazy to think souls are not unique right? I don't know numbers right now, but I would say we have a few billion more people now than we did 150 years ago. Where are the extra souls coming from? Would that same mindset mean that any belief in the afterlife lessens the value of human life? By your description, an atheist should have the greatest appreciation for life because we only get one shot (as far as we know). Someone who thinks heaven is waiting for them would be more likely to put their life at risk (ie. fighting a war) for something they believe in because they have paradise awaiting. I would not fight in a war unless the safety of myself and my family was in immediate danger because my life is worth more to me than to throw it away because a few politicians can't agree on something and I don't believe I've got paradise waiting for me on the other end. In his film, Religulous, Bill Maher made a funny/interesting comment to one religious guy who raved on about how amazing heaven would be. Maher said, "you believe you go to paradise when you die?" The guy said "Yes." Maher said, "Then why don't you just kill yourself?" Now I know Maher comes across as an asshole again here, and I get why religious don't just commit suicide (because the church said suicide is a sin punishable by an eternity in hell, otherwise everyone would want to commit suicide), but Maher makes a good point. If paradise awaits you and all that stands in your way is this apparently crappy, sinful life, then why wouldn't everyone just do everything they can to die honorably? Run into a burning house to save a child... Join the army and stop the 'terrorists'... Fly Malaysian airlines and figure out what the hell is going on there (too soon?)... Why the hell would anyone want to keep living if you could die a hero and then enjoy paradise. You make fair points Saska. Although I would point out reincarnation gives you multiple chances at life on this world. Religion sends you off else where. So even if I simply thought it lessens -this life- on this world, because religions generally only give you one shot here. That make any sense? As to religion, dying honorably, we've seen a lot of that in history. Martyrs in other countries of all faiths die for their beliefs because they believe there is a better place on the other side. But my life isn't too crappy, I mean, there's sin ofcourse, and the Chiefs playoff games, but there's good things too. I love animals. Had a horse growing up, and I keep my cat with me all the time. And I guess there's something to be said for living in bliss. I'm sure the Dung Beatle doesn't think he has it all that bad. I can see how the appeal would be there, to come back as a cat who's spoiled the hell out of. I just don't believe my cat has the same kind of soul I do. But he is a good listener.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2014 16:37:06 GMT -5
Wow I have lots of read to catch up. Been working to much lately. By the way I text my daughter this morning and asked if Julien ever talks about his past life as a Chinese anymore. She text back "haha NO" Didn't know this would bring up so much conversation. That is a good thing though right? And let me restate my feeling about reincarnation. ....I kind of believe it is a real possibility. I'm not sold that it is a true fact. There now I feel better.
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Post by saskabronco on Jul 21, 2014 16:43:57 GMT -5
Wow I have lots of read to catch up. Been working to much lately. By the way I text my daughter this morning and asked if Julien ever talks about his past life as a Chinese anymore. She text back "haha NO" Didn't know this would bring up so much conversation. That is a good thing though right? Seems like it has been a pretty interesting and positive discussion that you generated by bringing it up. I find a good sign after several pages of a debate in the religion/politics thread is the following three things: 1) No Rage-posts 2) No being locked by MODs 3) No one quitting the forum So far so good! *knock on wood
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