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Russia
Mar 2, 2014 22:09:41 GMT -5
Post by Shaggzfate on Mar 2, 2014 22:09:41 GMT -5
I'm surprised there isn't a thread yet.
But the issues surrounding this whole deal with the Ukraine bug me. Call me uninformed, but I'm not really sure what started this and how to take the whole deal. First, Ukraine descended into a civil war / coup, then Russia stepped in to "protect" it's national interests, be it the citizens like they say, or the strategic ports which is more likely. Now there are reports that the group that took over the Ukraine are basically Neo-nazi fascist types (may or may not be true).
How should we take this? I know as America, we will step our foot into it some way or another, but are we really ready to push the issue and threaten war?
There were reports of a Russian warship off the coast of Cuba, then Obama made his "Red Line" remark, which in turn caused Putin to recall his foreign ambassador (over reaction much?). After the US made a public stand, Russia still took over Crimea. So now what? What do we do as a country, what can we afford to do? We barely survived the cold war, are we really ready to go for round 2 or worse? I'm saying that because I do not see Putin backing down for any sanctions or embargoes like they are suggesting. He doesn't respond well to shit like that. The only thing that would make him listen is to lose a war... Just the type of person he is.
Now am I wrong in this? Is Russia really in the wrong, or is it just playing the USA by going into a destabilized country trying to restore a better government if in fact they are fascists in charge? I'm having a hard time understanding what the difference is now with them than we've done in the past in a few countries.
The EU doesn't seem to be in to big of a rush to do anything either, outside of Poland wanting security measures installed to protect their own boarders.
I can understand if Russia was to say, annex the Crimea Peninsula, but so far they have just moved troops in.
This just concerns me, because if this does blow up into war, it'll end up being a world war due to the other Red Curtain nations getting involved as well as our allies. If Russia and the US do go to war, you can guarantee N. Korea will attack S. Korea and try to take back that Peninsula. Iran will try and restart it's nuclear program in the least, declare war on Israel at most. China is a bit more foggy, I don't believe they'd outright join the fighting, but they'd have a very vested interest in the outcome, especially with "little brother" N.Korea. This all hinges on us. And the fact is, this isn't going to be our advantage either, the Russians have comparable armaments and such, so it won't be a small scale thing for us if it does erupt.
Someone tell me I'm crazy please? Cause this has really been worrying me bad.
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Russia
Mar 2, 2014 22:20:05 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2014 22:20:05 GMT -5
some hard core truths.
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Russia
Mar 2, 2014 22:22:41 GMT -5
Post by Shaggzfate on Mar 2, 2014 22:22:41 GMT -5
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Russia
Mar 2, 2014 22:29:56 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2014 22:29:56 GMT -5
When Romney brought up Russia in the debate Obama laughed at him. Saying " The 80's called and want the policy back" And all the Democrates laughed. Well the Republicans were right.
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Post by Shaggzfate on Mar 2, 2014 22:45:12 GMT -5
Yeah they were. It's (politics in the us) stupid Craig. If the two sides could actually act like part of one whole instead of fighting each other on everything tooth and nail we'd actually be the great country we can be. Instead we are so divided by imaginary political lines that it's not even funny.
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Russia
Mar 3, 2014 11:23:22 GMT -5
Post by saskabronco on Mar 3, 2014 11:23:22 GMT -5
When Romney brought up Russia in the debate Obama laughed at him. Saying " The 80's called and want the policy back" And all the Democrates laughed. Well the Republicans were right. Out of curiosity, what would Romney have done differently to prevent Russia from doing this? Maybe I am just ignorant to some American politics, but as far as I understand, Romney saw Russia as a major geo-political foe. Would he have attacked them earlier, before showing signs of aggression to the Ukraine? Would he have placed crippling sanctions on Russia following some of their earlier transgressions? Russia is a major power in the world and it is pretty clear they don't give a shit what other countries, especially America, has to say. Do you really think Romney would have been capable of preventing this from happening? Even if he did, it probably would have come at the cost of many other things. I am not trying to say Obama is not at all to blame, I am just saying that if you think things would have been any better under a moron like Romney, well just look back to 2000-2008 when the country was run by another moron republican. Bad things are going to happen in the world, regardless of who is running America.
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Post by Juggs on Mar 3, 2014 11:25:54 GMT -5
craig440 I predict that if Hillary Clinton is elected, South Korea will hold the olympics in 2018 This invasion had zip to do with American politics Just to clarify, Victor Yanukovich, the recently deposed Ukrainian president, as well as Vladamir Putin, the EU, and the Ukrainian people are entirely the only causes of this war. No US citizen is involved. Not Barack Obama, Eric Holder, Hillary Clinton, Mitt Romney or anyone else. Here's what went down: Ukraine, like many Eastern European countries, was about to default on its debt (sound familiar?), and the EU, as it usually does, offered a bailout for their government so that they would not antagonize the Russians, who hold most of Ukraine's foreign debt. Yanukovich, having no other options, accepted the EU bailout, even though it wasn't the best possible deal fiscally. The Ukrainian people are west-oriented and loved the deal because it kept their domestic programs solvent and it didn't involve Russia. Win-win. No war. End of story. But it didn't end that way. Yanukovich backstabbed the EU in the middle of the night, voided a multi billion dollar contract, and took a better bailout deal from guess who, Vladamir Putin and the Russian treasury, along with submitting to terms that included more Russian troop movement into the Crimea, Ukraine's only port on the Black Sea. In reaction, Ukrainian citizens ousted Yanukovich and installed rebel leader Olexandr Turchinov, who immediatley began back tracking from the now-valid bailout contract with Russia. Well, guess what? It's too late. Russia's military has already begun mobilizing into the Crimea and funds from the bailout have already been processed. This means that the EU won't give backsies after the whole affair has screwed them over for various reasons that I admit I don't totally understand. ex-president Yanukovich is no living in wealth in Russia, supported by Putin and will be installed as Ukranian President once again if Russia were to invade and inevitably slaughter the tiny Ukrainian military. For what it's worth, the people of Ukraine and the EU are allied to the United States, so to say that we have zero role in this whole thing isn't true, its just that this can be no way pinned on the Obama administration and any TV Network that tells you so should be taken off the air.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2014 12:29:09 GMT -5
When Romney brought up Russia in the debate Obama laughed at him. Saying " The 80's called and want the policy back" And all the Democrates laughed. Well the Republicans were right. Out of curiosity, what would Romney have done differently to prevent Russia from doing this? Maybe I am just ignorant to some American politics, but as far as I understand, Romney saw Russia as a major geo-political foe. Would he have attacked them earlier, before showing signs of aggression to the Ukraine? Would he have placed crippling sanctions on Russia following some of their earlier transgressions? Russia is a major power in the world and it is pretty clear they don't give a shit what other countries, especially America, has to say. Do you really think Romney would have been capable of preventing this from happening? Even if he did, it probably would have come at the cost of many other things. I am not trying to say Obama is not at all to blame, I am just saying that if you think things would have been any better under a moron like Romney, well just look back to 2000-2008 when the country was run by another moron republican. Bad things are going to happen in the world, regardless of who is running America. What would Romney do different? I don't know. I'm not all that hip on politics, I was just copy and pasting something I saw on face book. LOL Sorry didn't mean to cause a stir.
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Post by Shaggzfate on Mar 3, 2014 15:10:14 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, what would Romney have done differently to prevent Russia from doing this? Maybe I am just ignorant to some American politics, but as far as I understand, Romney saw Russia as a major geo-political foe. Would he have attacked them earlier, before showing signs of aggression to the Ukraine? Would he have placed crippling sanctions on Russia following some of their earlier transgressions? Russia is a major power in the world and it is pretty clear they don't give a shit what other countries, especially America, has to say. Do you really think Romney would have been capable of preventing this from happening? Even if he did, it probably would have come at the cost of many other things. I am not trying to say Obama is not at all to blame, I am just saying that if you think things would have been any better under a moron like Romney, well just look back to 2000-2008 when the country was run by another moron republican. Bad things are going to happen in the world, regardless of who is running America. What would Romney do different? I don't know. I'm not all that hip on politics, I was just copy and pasting something I saw on face book. LOL Sorry didn't mean to cause a stir. Don't apologize, just stir the shit like the rest of us. No one really understands politics, not even the politicians. It's like poker and extortion all at the same time.
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Russia
Mar 4, 2014 9:19:31 GMT -5
Post by saskabronco on Mar 4, 2014 9:19:31 GMT -5
I've been following this a little more since reading this thread Shaggzfate. I am also kind of terrified that a world war is going to break out here. This is how the big wars seem to start. One country starts with an unwarranted act of aggression and there is a large group that opposes the act. Then countries start picking sides, and given the other issues, as you stated Shaggz, it's pretty clear that some of the countries will side against the USA and their allies (Iran, North Korea, etc.). Given Putin's attitude, that he doesn't give a shit what anyone else says, I don't see him backing down any time soon. This is a bad situation. And just to comment on the Sarah Palin comment again, even if she was accurate with what she said who is going to take her seriously when it comes to foreign affairs? She is the same woman that claimed to know how to deal with Russia because her state shared a border with them, and she referred to North Korea as America's allies. I'm sure crazy homeless guys ranting on the subway make accurate predictions from time to time as well, but that doesn't mean we should take their word for it every time they say something. I don't think Obama is the laughing stock of anything right now. And anyone who actually is laughing at Obama because this is happening is a moron because they are literally laughing because people in Ukraine are dying. Why does no one make the same deal about Bush? Russia invaded Georgia in August of 2008, under Bush's watch, and the US didn't exert their might. Why is he not the laughing stock of the world from that incident? I know you just posted that meme because you thought it was funny craig440, but I am so tired of seeing all of the partisan bickering that seems to trump real serious issues. If American politics could get passed all the racism, religious fundamentalism, lies, corruption and outright stupidity (aimed at both sides), they could actually be useful on a global scale. I'd say the entirety of America is the laughing stock of the world right now because they can't do a damn thing thanks to bickering in their own house.
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