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Post by danb6177 on Dec 21, 2013 20:51:07 GMT -5
I do know if the people on this forum have children in schools now or are going by their own personal experience in school when they attended. I had to pay my oldest sons history teacher a visit to get him to stop making fun of him for believing Jesus was God. The man actually harrased him about it. The school board did nothing. My youngest son was told not to wear religious clothing to school. My other was told not to wear a Christmas hat this week to school because his teacher does not celebrate Christmas because it is a religious holiday. i can go on and on I don't have kids in school, but when I was in school many years ago this was not even an issue. Weird. I'm proud of you for having that visit with his teacher. I went to catholic school and then public school and it was not like it was today. The world is a different place. we accept things now that we didnt accept then and discard the things now that we held sacred then. My problem is I change by not changing. But ty craig, I know you would have done the same
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Post by danb6177 on Dec 21, 2013 21:32:47 GMT -5
Just to reiterate the OP and why I said anything in the first place. Im an advicate of fairness. I just dont see the world anymore acting fairly toward Christainity.
Its hard for me to swallow someone saying that they dont wanna be judged for not acting a certain way while at the same time are telling a group not to act the way they normally act. But this statement sums up for me the way the world sees Christians.
Christians have the right to exist as long as they live according to the world and keep to themselves.
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Post by Juggs on Dec 21, 2013 21:47:04 GMT -5
How Christians are treated in the US is not as bad as how atheists are treated. How atheists are treated is not as bad as how jews are treated. How jews are treated is not as bad as how muslims are treated. How muslims are treated is not as bad as how muslim women, mormons, or christians in some parts of west africa are treated.
The war on christmas is like the equivalent of throwing a pebble at a tank compared to racial profiling, which is totally legal in the United States. I think we can worry about fixing the war on christmas as priority number 1102918410249012931841928301298391840123
for context, I am a christian living in a predominately atheist town, school, and family. When I went out and bought presents this afternoon, I said happy hollidays and merry christmas pretty much at random, and got absolutely no crap for it, even from Jewish people and atheists...
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Post by danb6177 on Dec 21, 2013 22:31:29 GMT -5
Jews are treated badly in america? By whom?
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Post by saskabronco on Dec 21, 2013 23:45:21 GMT -5
saskabroncowe could go back and forth with our opinions but we are not on the same page. You see Christianity through the eyes of an atheist and i see it through the eyes of a Christian. You did mention rights however. To say Jesus has no place in schools because the world is secular makes sense to you (rightfully so). However the forcing of the absense of something is equally as bad as the forcing of the presence of something. To tell me (a christian) that Jesus does not belong in school is the forcing of your belief upon mine. Just the same as me saying that Jesus should be in school which you would consider religion being forced upon you. Dan, I see Christianity through the eyes of a former Christian who has many close family members who are very Christian and who has spent much time reading parts of the bible, taking classes in university on Jesus Christ and discussing these issues with many people of varying faiths. Please stop treating me like an ignorant Atheist. What do you think you know about Atheism? I know that the definition of Christianity is someone who follows the teachings of Christ and accepts him as The Lord and saviour. Just because you may not like what Mormons or JW's represent, doesn't mean you can ignore the fact that they are Christian. I'm not saying Jesus has no place in the world because its a secular world. I'm saying Jesus shouldn't be forced on everyone simply because a portion of the population believes in him. He belongs in churches, religious schools and in the hearts of Christians... And I think public schools should discuss religion, but not from the stand point that Jesus is our saviour. Like Craig said, religions have shaped our entire world. Most of the wars fought on this planet are linked to some religious or anti-religious beliefs, so understanding religion is very important. I don't believe we are doing the same thing. I don't think religions should be forced on people who don't want it. If you choose religion, you have places you can go to get your fix (Church) but what about those who choose no religion. Why should they be forced to deal with that absurdity through a mandatory institution like school. Jesus should stay out of schools. People who want him have plenty of ways to find him, but if he is in schools people who don't want him have nowhere to get away. Your religion might seem true to you, but to the rest of us it is just a bunch of ridiculousness, the way you likely view Islam, Scientology, Mormonism, etc. how would you like it if every school started teaching Scientology as if it were the truth?
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Post by saskabronco on Dec 21, 2013 23:48:25 GMT -5
Just to reiterate the OP and why I said anything in the first place. Im an advicate of fairness. I just dont see the world anymore acting fairly toward Christainity. Its hard for me to swallow someone saying that they dont wanna be judged for not acting a certain way while at the same time are telling a group not to act the way they normally act. But this statement sums up for me the way the world sees Christians. Christians have the right to exist as long as they live according to the world and keep to themselves. Wrong. Christians have the right to exist and live their lives how they want, but they have no right telling others how to live theirs... So yes, keep to yourselves in that respect.
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Post by Jindred on Dec 22, 2013 0:12:55 GMT -5
Just to reiterate the OP and why I said anything in the first place. Im an advicate of fairness. I just dont see the world anymore acting fairly toward Christainity.Its hard for me to swallow someone saying that they dont wanna be judged for not acting a certain way while at the same time are telling a group not to act the way they normally act. But this statement sums up for me the way the world sees Christians. Christians have the right to exist as long as they live according to the world and keep to themselves. You do realize how many Christians (yourself possibly not included) have treated every other religion in the world and still do to this day extremely unfairly. How many other religions are treated extremely unfairly? Atheism for example many people instantly assume bad things about you if you are an atheist, they assume you are a snob and have no morals. Islamic and Muslim are often seen as terrorists and have very little sway room. Spiritualists are seen as dirty pot smoking hippies often, I could go on.... So now the world is starting to treat Christianity the same as everything else has been I see it as that religion just becoming like every other one in the world where it is judged and treated unfairly along with all the rest of them instead of being the big untouchable infallible religion it once was. Christians now a day's aren't used to being treated unfairly and they don't like it as they have been the big dog on the block for such a long time and haven't had to deal with it. Tell me what religion is being treated fairly these days?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2013 10:21:34 GMT -5
Just to reiterate the OP and why I said anything in the first place. Im an advicate of fairness. I just dont see the world anymore acting fairly toward Christainity.Its hard for me to swallow someone saying that they dont wanna be judged for not acting a certain way while at the same time are telling a group not to act the way they normally act. But this statement sums up for me the way the world sees Christians. Christians have the right to exist as long as they live according to the world and keep to themselves. You do realize how many Christians (yourself possibly not included) have treated every other religion in the world and still do to this day extremely unfairly. How many other religions are treated extremely unfairly? Atheism for example many people instantly assume bad things about you if you are an atheist, they assume you are a snob and have no morals. Islamic and Muslim are often seen as terrorists and have very little sway room. Spiritualists are seen as dirty pot smoking hippies often, I could go on.... So now the world is starting to treat Christianity the same as everything else has been I see it as that religion just becoming like every other one in the world where it is judged and treated unfairly along with all the rest of them instead of being the big untouchable infallible religion it once was. Christians now a day's aren't used to being treated unfairly and they don't like it as they have been the big dog on the block for such a long time and haven't had to deal with it. Tell me what religion is being treated fairly these days? You make a good point Jindred. Christianity is being treated as every other religion in the world,that has been treated unfairly for hundreds of thousands of years. You are right about that. I never agreed with persecuting other religions just because it wasnt what Christians believed in. Still doesnt make it right though,anymore than persecuting gays,or blacks,or muslims,or women,or etc etc etc. and any other minority out there. Its a wacky world. We are not perfect...all human.
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Post by Divebitch on Dec 22, 2013 11:37:28 GMT -5
It would be great IMO, if religion is taught in a certain way, explaining the basic tenets of many religions. Belief in something of a higher power is an important part of life for most parts of the world. And children, when they are old enough (perhaps junior high?) should be exposed to all of it. I think fear, on several levels, plays a large part in a family's, nation's, or deity's unwillingness to do so.
No one is declaring war on Christmas or even Jesus Christ. It just does not belong in public schools. Put the shoe on the other foot and imagine the country was 80% Jewish or something else. Would you want your kids to be 'taught' something you didn't believe in? No, and rightfully so. That's what church and Sunday School is for.
I had a BF in Chicago for a couple years from N Dakota, of Norwegian heritage, whose dad was a Lutheran minister up there. He actually got 'fired' once from a church cuz of his conservatism. My last straw was my BF's assertion of the belief that if you don't accept Christ on your deathbed as being your Lord and Savior, you were going to hell. If you'd never been exposed to Christianity, like tribes in Africa I suppose, you were exempt. To imagine anyone could think that about my own dad, who was the most honest, hardworking, nonjudgmental person on the face of the planet was in hell, as opposed to his own dad's pious, proud, almost superior attitude, and TOTALLY judgmental beliefs and way of life, totally sickened me.
It made me ashamed that for awhile I was willing to even entertain exploring the possibilities. But no, a belief in (what I believe is the same(??)) God was not good enough, so all Jews go to hell. My parents had already BEEN through hell on earth. Guess they deserved it, right? Thing is, unless you were brainwashed as a child (and that's not just Christianity), you can't imagine how preposterous it seems that a religion with such a huge following could buy, hook line and sinker, that this human being was the mortal embodiment of God, who in my mind does not exist. How my parents even both believed in God astounds me. TBH, all religions have always baffled me, the relatively little I know about most of them. It's probably more the human mind that baffles me.
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Post by Jindred on Dec 22, 2013 12:31:34 GMT -5
You do realize how many Christians (yourself possibly not included) have treated every other religion in the world and still do to this day extremely unfairly. How many other religions are treated extremely unfairly? Atheism for example many people instantly assume bad things about you if you are an atheist, they assume you are a snob and have no morals. Islamic and Muslim are often seen as terrorists and have very little sway room. Spiritualists are seen as dirty pot smoking hippies often, I could go on.... So now the world is starting to treat Christianity the same as everything else has been I see it as that religion just becoming like every other one in the world where it is judged and treated unfairly along with all the rest of them instead of being the big untouchable infallible religion it once was. Christians now a day's aren't used to being treated unfairly and they don't like it as they have been the big dog on the block for such a long time and haven't had to deal with it. Tell me what religion is being treated fairly these days? You make a good point Jindred. Christianity is being treated as every other religion in the world,that has been treated unfairly for hundreds of thousands of years. You are right about that. I never agreed with persecuting other religions just because it wasnt what Christians believed in. Still doesnt make it right though,anymore than persecuting gays,or blacks,or muslims,or women,or etc etc etc. and any other minority out there. Its a wacky world. We are not perfect...all human. Agreed, in no way do I think Christianity being treated unfairly right I would like to see all belief systems treated with some level of respect and instead of judging people based on their beliefs you base your feelings on a person by person basis. Sadly for right now its better that everyone be treated unfairly based on their beliefs as opposed to a few being put up on a pedestal.. That way we are all at least on the same playing field!
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