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Post by Jindred on Dec 21, 2013 19:20:59 GMT -5
I don't believe he is saying it doesn't belong in school. He is saying it doesn't belong in public school. There is a difference. I am not sure about America but in Canada we have 3 main different types of school systems, Public, Separate and French Immersion. Separate schools for the most part are catholic schools that teach those values there is a Religion class dedicated purely to religion and many of the things taught in the school are taught with a sense of "Christian values" attached to them. The Public school system doesn't deal with religion, the leave it to parents/ churches to instil those beliefs within their children. So what he is saying is that the teaching of one specific religion has no place in public schools, because most kinds there aren't of the same religions, so why would they do a play about Jesus? In the Catholic school system which both Saska and I attended most of our christmas plays and things of the sort had Christian influence too them. Is it different in the states? no not different. If you go to a church based school the things in the school will be church based. If you go to a public school things will be secular. So by your point a child in a public secular school should not speak of Jesus because the school is secular and the belief in a secular school should be non Christian? Wouldnt it be more in line with the constitution to say that a Christian child has the right to speak of whatever they choose to when concerning religion. The first amendment doesnt say the freedom of religion is to be performed behind closed doors with your own kind. So back to my point. To say that Christ is not aloud in public school is to force the atheist/agnostic/secular beliefs upon a Christian. Just the same as if it were reveserd. Im not saying those kids can't speak of it or shouldn't. I am saying why would they do a play about christ is a school that is not dedicated to religion? Why would a school dedicated to christ do a play about buddah or about vishnu? The answer is they wouldn't.. Its not the schools place to teach or show christian beliefs, if the kid attending is christian yea they have every right to talk about their religion but the school doesn't have to do anything.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2013 19:29:28 GMT -5
They outta have a class "Religions of the World" And teach kids about the different religions and how they came to be. Its a part of history, the present, and future. Why shouldn't it be taught, (not preached), as a part of education?
I wish I would of had a class like that. The only religion education I got was a few years with my Jewish step father and his parents. And a few years when I was really young with my real grandparents who where devout Catholics. Then at the age of twelve never another word from school, home, or anywhere.
Education on the subject is important for a student I think.
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Post by Jindred on Dec 21, 2013 19:42:32 GMT -5
They outta have a class "Religions of the World" And teach kids about the different religions and how they came to be. Its a part of history, the present, and future. Why shouldn't it be taught, (not preached), as a part of education? I wish I would of had a class like that. The only religion education I got was a few years with my Jewish step father and his parents. And a few years when I was really young with my real grandparents who where devout Catholics. Then at the age of twelve never another word from school, home, or anywhere. Education on the subject is important for a student I think. This I 100% agree with. Religions are what have shaped this world in the way that it is and I believe all religions should be learned about! The tough part would be finding non-biased teachers to teach classes of this sort. Often if you get an atheist they would treat the class like a joke, or if you get someone too gung ho about their religion then they will tend to make other religions look bad in the eyes of people. You need someone totally non-biased who will teach this class as if it is an unbiased subject like math.
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Post by danb6177 on Dec 21, 2013 19:46:40 GMT -5
saskabroncowe could go back and forth with our opinions but we are not on the same page. You see Christianity through the eyes of an atheist and i see it through the eyes of a Christian. You did mention rights however. To say Jesus has no place in schools because the world is secular makes sense to you (rightfully so). However the forcing of the absense of something is equally as bad as the forcing of the presence of something. To tell me (a christian) that Jesus does not belong in school is the forcing of your belief upon mine. Just the same as me saying that Jesus should be in school which you would consider religion being forced upon you. Sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong, IMO. Your argument is so far out there, not to mention totally illogical, I wouldn't know where to begin. Let the parents and churches provide religious instruction, like when I was a kid, and the Catholics got off early from school on Wednesday do do so, while the rest of the class did extra art class. IMO, now that I look back, that is actually a rip-off on the education for everyone else. Christianity education does NOT BELONG in public schools. Sorry, but what you're saying is an outrage to me. How would you feel if 1 day a week of your kid's education was devoted to 1 hour of each of the following: Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, and Hinduism, maybe Muslim too - when your kid is also falling behind in reading, writing, and math? Send those kids to religious instruction after hours, simple as that. Or teach them at home. Right. You wanna talk the talk, walk the walk. No one should feel entitled to more than that from public school, for them to do it for you. Anyone here brought up in a big city who was in elementary school the past 15 years who can tell me what they do now? Im not saying to educate them on religion in school. You misunderstand
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Post by danb6177 on Dec 21, 2013 19:56:28 GMT -5
no not different. If you go to a church based school the things in the school will be church based. If you go to a public school things will be secular. So by your point a child in a public secular school should not speak of Jesus because the school is secular and the belief in a secular school should be non Christian? Wouldnt it be more in line with the constitution to say that a Christian child has the right to speak of whatever they choose to when concerning religion. The first amendment doesnt say the freedom of religion is to be performed behind closed doors with your own kind. So back to my point. To say that Christ is not aloud in public school is to force the atheist/agnostic/secular beliefs upon a Christian. Just the same as if it were reveserd. Im not saying those kids can't speak of it or shouldn't. I am saying why would they do a play about christ is a school that is not dedicated to religion? Why would a school dedicated to christ do a play about buddah or about vishnu? The answer is they wouldn't.. Its not the schools place to teach or show christian beliefs, if the kid attending is christian yea they have every right to talk about their religion but the school doesn't have to do anything. The play in my childs school that i was referring to sang songs of Kwanzaa,muhammed,Hanukkah,and generic Christmas songs. Which i really have no issue with. It was the absense of Christianity that got me. This is why I questioned it and was told what I was told. They omitted the songs about Christ to avoid complaints of the community.
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Post by danb6177 on Dec 21, 2013 20:02:11 GMT -5
They outta have a class "Religions of the World" And teach kids about the different religions and how they came to be. Its a part of history, the present, and future. Why shouldn't it be taught, (not preached), as a part of education? I wish I would of had a class like that. The only religion education I got was a few years with my Jewish step father and his parents. And a few years when I was really young with my real grandparents who where devout Catholics. Then at the age of twelve never another word from school, home, or anywhere. Education on the subject is important for a student I think. I dont think id want secular teachers giving their opinion as to how various religions they dont believe in started. Its like evolution. It is widely taught in schools to christian kids (which is fine) and when they get home we have to correct them. Its a good idea craig but realistically it wouldnt be done well.
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Post by Jindred on Dec 21, 2013 20:06:51 GMT -5
Im not saying those kids can't speak of it or shouldn't. I am saying why would they do a play about christ is a school that is not dedicated to religion? Why would a school dedicated to christ do a play about buddah or about vishnu? The answer is they wouldn't.. Its not the schools place to teach or show christian beliefs, if the kid attending is christian yea they have every right to talk about their religion but the school doesn't have to do anything. The play in my childs school that i was referring to sang songs of Kwanzaa,muhammed,Hanukkah,and generic Christmas songs. Which i really have no issue with. It was the absense of Christianity that got me. This is why I questioned it and was told what I was told. They omitted the songs about Christ to avoid complaints of the community. Oh well than that is a totally different story! If they had songs of other religious holidays I don't understand at all why they would omit Christian songs as well that's just down right hypocrisy.. In this instances I 100% agree with you, if they are gonna throw other things in their like Kwanzaa and Hanukkah then songs about Jesus should be permitted as well..
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2013 20:10:09 GMT -5
There are classes in College. I just think through education comes tolerance. And the younger you start em the more they learn. I agree the teacher would have to be a good one. Maybe have three or four teachers rotate during the year. I think its as important of a subject to learn as many other subjects taught.
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Post by danb6177 on Dec 21, 2013 20:33:10 GMT -5
The play in my childs school that i was referring to sang songs of Kwanzaa,muhammed,Hanukkah,and generic Christmas songs. Which i really have no issue with. It was the absense of Christianity that got me. This is why I questioned it and was told what I was told. They omitted the songs about Christ to avoid complaints of the community. Oh well than that is a totally different story! If they had songs of other religious holidays I don't understand at all why they would omit Christian songs as well that's just down right hypocrisy.. In this instances I 100% agree with you, if they are gonna throw other things in their like Kwanzaa and Hanukkah then songs about Jesus should be permitted as well.. I do know if the people on this forum have children in schools now or are going by their own personal experience in school when they attended. I had to pay my oldest sons history teacher a visit to get him to stop making fun of him for believing Jesus was God. The man actually harrased him about it. The school board did nothing. My youngest son was told not to wear religious clothing to school. My other was told not to wear a Christmas hat this week to school because his teacher does not celebrate Christmas because it is a religious holiday. i can go on and on
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2013 20:41:23 GMT -5
Oh well than that is a totally different story! If they had songs of other religious holidays I don't understand at all why they would omit Christian songs as well that's just down right hypocrisy.. In this instances I 100% agree with you, if they are gonna throw other things in their like Kwanzaa and Hanukkah then songs about Jesus should be permitted as well.. I do know if the people on this forum have children in schools now or are going by their own personal experience in school when they attended. I had to pay my oldest sons history teacher a visit to get him to stop making fun of him for believing Jesus was God. The man actually harrased him about it. The school board did nothing. My youngest son was told not to wear religious clothing to school. My other was told not to wear a Christmas hat this week to school because his teacher does not celebrate Christmas because it is a religious holiday. i can go on and on I don't have kids in school, but when I was in school many years ago this was not even an issue. Weird. I'm proud of you for having that visit with his teacher.
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