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Post by mitch9234 on Dec 19, 2013 18:40:07 GMT -5
I could never guess that people get offended by saying "Merry Christmas". I don't get this. I could understand it with jewish people
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Post by saskabronco on Dec 19, 2013 23:50:01 GMT -5
I find the opposite actually. the people talking and starting threads online and debates in real life are atheists (some who love to bash Christians for their beliefs). Ive had a half dozen debates this holiday season all started by atheists. Not sure where you have been attacked? Are Christians running around your neighborhood forcing their beliefs upon you? I havent seen any out and about where i live in fact i dont think its ever happened to me. And the lady on TV has the right to an opinion just like everyone else. I think he(Jesus) was brown to give my own. Santa was white but had a black friend(black pete) that he cannot have anymore due to racial issues. I think what happens is that atheists look at Christians and see that they suck and they behave badly and all that and atheists just cant sleep well if they dont let Christians know that they see them acting that way.This has been my experience at least during the holidays. Every atheist wants to let a Christian know that they are bad people. Merry Christmas The answer to your question is a resounding yes. Christians (not all, by any means, but just the vocal ones) think they have the right to force their beliefs down my throat. That's part of the issue... They are saying us 'others' are celebrating Christmas wrong if we don't make it about Jesus, even though the entire holiday is not about Jesus. And then there are JW's and Mormons, both Christians, who literally walk around my neighbourhood forcing their beliefs on everyone. Dont get me wrong, there are a lot of douchebag atheists out there too that piss me off with their attitudes, but honestly I don't feel like its acceptable for me to even openly admit I'm an atheist in a lot of public places because of the negative connotations that seem to be tied with that word, but a Christian can go around telling people that homosexuality is a sin and this and that, and hide behind a book to justify it. I am not one of those atheists who wants to pick a fight with every Christian out there. I like to discuss these things, but I leave it in the religion thread because it doesn't belong elsewhere on this forum, and people not interested in discussing it with me will not be pursued. You made a massive generalization about atheists in your comment and I might have been too general with my initial comments about Christians and Jin is right... There is no reason to say 'Atheists do this' or 'Christians do that' because the only thing that links all atheists is a disbelief in god and the only thing that links all Christians is a belief in Jesus as the son of God. Outside of that, they can all be as good or bad as they choose. My overall point though is that there is no war on Christmas in the sense that people are out to destroy it. It's just that non-Christian groups are just being more open about not making it about Jesus. Christians still have every right to celebrate how they want, but the rest of us have that same right.
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Post by danb6177 on Dec 20, 2013 10:19:57 GMT -5
saskabroncoI can see some of the problem now. You have a very broad scope of what Christianity is. Have you ever studied the various religions? It may change your perception. First off JW and mormons are not Christians. They do not believe in Christ as their savior and are against Christmas altogether. This explains to me why you say they come and force their beliefs down your throat. those factions do. Christianity believes that God is stronger than we are so when people who are not Christian celebrate Christmas(no matter in which way) it is a good thing. I could not see a person of Christ attacking someone for celebrating Christmas unless they are very unread. Even the Christmas lights on your home testify to Christs greatness (to us). Atheism is widely accepted in america so not sure why you would say you feel uncomfortable saying you are one. Do you live in the bible belt? You are in america yes? As to the war on Christmas if their ever was one it would have been a route and long over by now. we went to a school christmas play a few years back and i was amazed to see that not only was Jesus not mentioned but obviously avoided. i asked them why and they told me that they cannot sing about Jesus any more in school functions. Jesus offends people is the opinion of the school board.
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Post by danb6177 on Dec 20, 2013 11:23:15 GMT -5
I could never guess that people get offended by saying "Merry Christmas". I don't get this. I could understand it with jewish people This is what some people consider forcing their beliefs upon someone. Im not saying bronco is doing that but i know for sure some see a Christian saying merry Christmas as an attack upon their beliefs. Its a strange thing really. And unfortunately the same is true on the flip side. A person says happy holidays to a Christian and its taken offensively as well. Are either meant offensively? Things to ponder
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Post by Divebitch on Dec 20, 2013 18:46:25 GMT -5
saskabronco - I am an atheist as well, agnostic actualy keeping an open mind...just in case. lol What I've found is most Christians are more likely to try to shove it down your throat than atheists are, or Jews for that matter. First of all, New Year's is also part of the holiday season. So there are more than one holiday that people miss work for. So even if I was Christian, saying Happy Holidays isn't wrong, because there is more than one holiday grouped together to make up the "Christmas Holidays". New Year's has absolutely nothing to do with Christmas... so Happy Holidays is very accurate. And as I mentioned, people get vacations because of the government. And both your government and mine, in Canada, and not religious at all. So Christmas day being a federal holiday is a result of a government that is not Christian, or any other religion. Individuals representing the government may be of a certain faith, but government as a whole is not of any faith. And as I mentioned before, Christmas is not solely a Christian holiday, they just took the naming rights. I disagree here. Christmas is a direct result of a gov't that is Christian. How can you think otherwise? It was the only game in town a century ago, maybe even by just before the end of WW2, by probably a good 50-1 except for Native Americans. There were people a mere 50 - 75 years ago in many parts of the Midwest that still believed Jews had horns, not kidding. That said, if someone says to me 'Merry Christmas', that's nice, it's meant in the spirit of holiday merriment. I think most that have taken offense are also very religious people of other faiths. But they should NOT take offense. They are not saying 'screw Chanukah' or 'screw Kwanzaa' or whatever. (FWIW Kwanzaa is a (relatively) brand new 'concept', if you will, for African-Americans in addition to their Christmas. It's very barely a real holiday). But if you don't celebrate Christmas, be gracious about it. This 'Happy Holidays' crap is probably more a result of Hallmark and Capitalism in general than anything else anyway, that cater to those that don't wanna feel left out or leave themselves out of season festivities with their Christian friends. Jews have money, get them involved. Others do too nowadays. Happy Holidays is PC, can't go wrong. But I can understand how Christians are offended - it's Christmas, not holidays, get over it. I was not brought up Christian. However many/most of my good friends are. Regardless, and this is not really a secular society, but it is what it is. It was just a couple years ago, wasn't it ( ) that it was deemed whether or not kids should have to have to recite 'one nation under God'.
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xdeadlyxmirage
NFL Starter
This Guy
Disrespecting narrative film since the 15th century.
Posts: 1,557
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Post by xdeadlyxmirage on Dec 21, 2013 0:51:29 GMT -5
There were people a mere 50 - 75 years ago in many parts of the Midwest that still believed Jews had horns, not kidding. Implying they don't...
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Post by Jancey on Dec 21, 2013 1:26:35 GMT -5
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Post by MarchingOn on Dec 21, 2013 2:13:34 GMT -5
That's not ridiculous at all. What is ridiculous is saying he definitely exists/doesn't exist. Could deities really be? Nobody knows. But talking in absolutes one way or the other is what is ridiculous.
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Post by Jindred on Dec 21, 2013 2:24:05 GMT -5
Something you have to realize Jancey is that there is equally as much stuff out there disproving Jesus as there is proving he existed. It is honestly completely a question of which evidence you choose to put your faith in. The honest answer is because of all the conflicting evidence there is NO proof either way. Nobody can say that Jesus A) definitely existed or B) Definitely didn't. I personally believe there was a "Jesus" figure at some point in history that many Religions choose to base their stories after. It goes along with my belief that there is a hint of truth to every story.
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Post by saskabronco on Dec 21, 2013 2:43:51 GMT -5
saskabroncoI can see some of the problem now. You have a very broad scope of what Christianity is. Have you ever studied the various religions? It may change your perception. First off JW and mormons are not Christians. They do not believe in Christ as their savior and are against Christmas altogether. This explains to me why you say they come and force their beliefs down your throat. those factions do. Christianity believes that God is stronger than we are so when people who are not Christian celebrate Christmas(no matter in which way) it is a good thing. I could not see a person of Christ attacking someone for celebrating Christmas unless they are very unread. Even the Christmas lights on your home testify to Christs greatness (to us). Atheism is widely accepted in america so not sure why you would say you feel uncomfortable saying you are one. Do you live in the bible belt? You are in america yes? As to the war on Christmas if their ever was one it would have been a route and long over by now. we went to a school christmas play a few years back and i was amazed to see that not only was Jesus not mentioned but obviously avoided. i asked them why and they told me that they cannot sing about Jesus any more in school functions. Jesus offends people is the opinion of the school board. Dan, Christianity is a very broad scope. I have studied other religions and I was catholic for much of my life. A Christian is someone who believes in Jesus Christ as the son of God and saviour of mankind. Just because some Christians don't want to be affiliated with JW's or Mormons, doesn't mean they aren't Christian. Both groups follow the teachings of Christ and accept him as God's son and saviour. I never said people of Christ are attacking non-believers for celebrating their holiday, I said some Christians are expressing fear that non-believers are attempting to destroy Christmas. And my overall point is that I don't believe there are people trying to destroy Christmas, but rather people who are simply trying to remove that which has been so forcefully stuffed down our throats. As I mentioned before, most of Christmas has nothing to do with Christ. The majority of Christmas traditions are based on various pagan celebrations in honor of the winter solstice. Before humanity had an understanding of astronomy, this was a time for massive celebration in the northern hemisphere because it is when the sun stopped moving away from us and started coming back. That is where the celebration originated and the Christians latched on to that in order to convert more people. I am in Canada, not America, but we deal with mostly the same issues in terms of religion. I can tell people I don't believe in God and people are fine with that, but for me to call myself an atheist means people think I'm a bad person, even those two things are literally exactly the same. Calling myself an athiest says nothing more about me than that I don't believe in God, and the rest is all assumptions based on other atheist's actions. I don't believe that the school board believes Jesus offends people. What offends people is that one group that is not the majority when you factor in all other faiths thinks they have the right to push their views regarding Jesus while not being willing to listen to a story about the prophet Muhammed or Krishna or anyone else. To the rest of us, Jesus is not the saviour of mankind and we don't care to have your views forced down our throats. Would you find it offensive to have a school play where Muslim views were assumed to be 100% true and your views were treated like a joke? Jesus doesn't have a place in public schools. He has a place in Churches and in the hearts of believers, but the rest of us don't care to have it forced on us. Freedom of religion gives us all the right to choose. That's why it's worded 'Freedom of RELIGION' and not just 'Freedom of CHRISTIANITY'.
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