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Post by 101mitch on Nov 8, 2012 22:52:54 GMT -5
Guys. I just hope this politics thing doesn't make anyone go over the top mad. I really don't want to talk about it anymore, although I think I have stated my opinion.
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Post by Jindred on Nov 8, 2012 22:54:38 GMT -5
jancey - It has no Human qualities. A fetus does have DNA in it, but so does an amputated arm, and I don't think you would refer to that as a human being. It is a living being though.. in which makes it extremely complicated, because then where do you drawn the line, animals are living beings.. is it immoral to kill them? It is a being that will become a human so is it immoral to not even give it a chance at human life.. then is it immoral to not give a chicken egg the chance at chicken life.. however those eggs are unfertilized so thats another story..
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Post by Jancey on Nov 8, 2012 22:54:52 GMT -5
@sean
If and only if the birth of the child is endangering the life of the mother, the baby should be allowed to be aborted....and I'm actually torn on this issue
1) Women should be allowed to abort in extreme cases with no cost, and no restrictions. Incest/rape, among others. If she is raped, she should still go through with the birth. Don't make the child pay for another man's mistake of raping her. She can decide to keep the child, or put him up for adoption.
2) Women should be allowed to abort whenever they want. With consequences/stipulations/etc. I'm not sure the best way to phrase that. Basically, if you are a slut and you get pregnant and you say "I don't want this", you can get an abortion. You pay for it. It's not free. And your tubes are tied. There is no choice in the matter. You abort a kid, you're not allowed to have any further children.
So we want to allow this "slut" to have the child killed because of the decisions she made?
3) To be able to have further children, not only do you have to pay for the operation to have your tubes untied(Or whichever operation that does this that is reversible), but you have to have a psychological evaluation done, and the psychiatrist(Which you have to pay for) has to state that you are healthy enough mentally to have/support/raise a child. You also have to show you are financially stable, and physically healthy. ALL of these things must be paid for out of your own pocket for you to be able to have a child, if you previously chose to have one aborted.
I agree with this, but as I said before, she shouldn't have been allowed to abort the child in the 1st place.
4) Low-income/poor families that can show proof that they cannot support children for one reason or another(Say, they can't afford it, they don't have a home, etc), can have a free abortion. They also have their tubes tied(Or whatever operation) to prevent the same exact situation from springing up again. If they choose not to abort, they can elect to give the child up for adoption at birth. This is -elective- and abortion and/or adoption cannot be forced upon a mother for any reason other than reasons that they can already be enforced. Such as endangerment and other child welfare issues already covered in existing policies and laws.
Again, if they can't support a child, don't get pregnant. Don't kill the child because the family can't support the baby. The woman got pregnant. Don't kill the child because of her choices.
I do sorta agree with everything you said though...it's a HUGE step up from where we are now, and though I don't think it should be ok to abort the baby, this at least is going in the right direction
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Post by awesomeace on Nov 8, 2012 22:55:26 GMT -5
Don't make a comparison to an unborn child and an amputated arm.......It has a full body and head, it has DNA, it breathes. It is living. And it would have been another person just like you and me, and we want to say it's ok to kill that child and not let it come into the world not to poke fun or anything... but if there is a zombie apocolypse, I don't want you to be my neighbor. Besides the fetus is totally dependant on the woman to survive. The woman provides the oxygen and the nutrients, you don't have to do that with a child. and like I mentioned earlier, you can't be pro-life for just this one specific topic but ignore it in other parts of your life
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Post by Jancey on Nov 8, 2012 22:56:08 GMT -5
@ace: it is a human being, not an animal
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Post by Jindred on Nov 8, 2012 22:57:59 GMT -5
@ace: it is a human being, not an animal Whats the difference between a human being and an animal though? We are both alive and we both have souls/spirits/ whatever you want to call it. Is having speech and opposable thumbs really that much more special than not?
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Post by awesomeace on Nov 8, 2012 22:58:44 GMT -5
@ace: it is a human being, not an animal what makes an unborn human get that sort of treatment? You kill animals all the time, indirectly or directly it still happens. It is still a living being, shouldn't it be able to live it's life and not have a human decide it's fate for it? Besides last time I checked, humans were classified in the Animal kingdom
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Post by 101mitch on Nov 8, 2012 22:59:08 GMT -5
@ace: it is a human being, not an animal Whats the difference between a human being and an animal though? We are both alive and we both have souls/spirits/ whatever you want to call it. Is having speech and apposible thumbs really that much more special than not? I don't think animals have souls. Although that is, for me, getting into religion. Which is the only topic I refuse to talk in depth about on a football board.
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Post by Jindred on Nov 8, 2012 23:00:46 GMT -5
Whats the difference between a human being and an animal though? We are both alive and we both have souls/spirits/ whatever you want to call it. Is having speech and apposible thumbs really that much more special than not? I don't think animals have souls. Although that is, for me, getting into religion. Which is the only topic I refuse to talk in depth about on a football board. As much as I'd like to discuss that with you that is definitely a whole other can of worms and set of beliefs that should stay closed for now haha:P
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Post by sean2457 on Nov 8, 2012 23:01:01 GMT -5
Here's another view and I'd say it's sort of radical as well: How sacred is human life now that the world is closing in on 7 billion people? At what point do we say enough is enough and we make a conscious, global effort to keep the growth of the human race controlled?
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