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Post by patriotsk1d on Jul 28, 2015 23:49:15 GMT -5
Why is this "destroying the phone" crap an issue?? If the NFL thought the phone was the smoking gun, they can take it to court, and subpoena the information. It's not like after you destroy a phone all of the contents disappear. I really don't understand either. The only thing Wells was even interested in was the text messages between Brady and the two Ball attendants, but they had the attendants phones from the beginning so they already had those text messages. The NFL over blew this thing from the beginning and they are just looking for a way out of it that doesnt involve them looking bad. They have the advantage of most fans already hating New England so it was just a matter of find a story that the media will run with.
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Post by cityofchamps on Jul 28, 2015 23:54:53 GMT -5
You are ignoring the fact that the NFL didnt even have the right under the CBA to ask to see his phone. No, but they are entitled to expect that kind of cooperation from the players and insist on seeing that information since the investigations are predicated on cooperation. They don't have subpoena powers. They have to rely on cooperation and if a player doesn't cooperate, they have the right to discipline them if they believe that the player's conduct is detrimental to the integrity of the company. If Tom Brady is completely and fully innocent, why in the world did he destroy his cell phone AFTER HE FOUND OUT THE INVESTIGATORS WANTED INFORMATION FROM IT!? I don't care about his "habits". Tom Brady isn't acting like an innocent man. He is acting like someone who desperately wants to find any loophole to get out of this suspension. His decisions aren't logical. They don't even make common sense. If he was completely innocent, he should have made the phone records available during the investigation and proved his innocence so he wouldn't have to go through this farce. It isn't like the NFL would have released his private conversations to the public. In my mind, Tom Brady's actions are that of a guilty man and there is no possible way in hell that the courts will completely overturn his suspension. The absolute most he can get out of this is getting the suspension reduced without having to outright admit guilt, which would give him plausible deniability to protect his legacy/dignity somewhat since part of the suspension is absolutely about failing to cooperate with the investigation and that isn't worth 4 games (it might be after this, but they can't suspend him for destroying his phone since that information came out after the Well's report and initial suspension). That is the absolute MOST he can get out of taking it to court (and possibly playing Week 1 to whenever the court case is done).
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Post by cityofchamps on Jul 29, 2015 0:01:12 GMT -5
Why is this "destroying the phone" crap an issue?? If the NFL thought the phone was the smoking gun, they can take it to court, and subpoena the information. It's not like after you destroy a phone all of the contents disappear. If the memory/sd card was also destroyed along with the phone, then yes, the contents do disappear. The NFL cannot take it to court and subpoena the information since it is not a criminal/civil case as in say a divorce. It is a work-related issue and the players are protected by the NFLPA from that sort of thing.
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Post by 101mitch on Jul 29, 2015 1:06:28 GMT -5
Why is this "destroying the phone" crap an issue?? If the NFL thought the phone was the smoking gun, they can take it to court, and subpoena the information. It's not like after you destroy a phone all of the contents disappear. If the memory/sd card was also destroyed along with the phone, then yes, the contents do disappear. The NFL cannot take it to court and subpoena the information since it is not a criminal/civil case as in say a divorce. It is a work-related issue and the players are protected by the NFLPA from that sort of thing. Didn't know the bottom thing, but you are definitely wrong about the phone thing.
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Post by saskabronco on Jul 29, 2015 7:08:49 GMT -5
You are ignoring the fact that the NFL didnt even have the right under the CBA to ask to see his phone. No, but they are entitled to expect that kind of cooperation from the players and insist on seeing that information since the investigations are predicated on cooperation. They don't have subpoena powers. They have to rely on cooperation and if a player doesn't cooperate, they have the right to discipline them if they believe that the player's conduct is detrimental to the integrity of the company. If Tom Brady is completely and fully innocent, why in the world did he destroy his cell phone AFTER HE FOUND OUT THE INVESTIGATORS WANTED INFORMATION FROM IT!? I don't care about his "habits". Tom Brady isn't acting like an innocent man. He is acting like someone who desperately wants to find any loophole to get out of this suspension. His decisions aren't logical. They don't even make common sense. If he was completely innocent, he should have made the phone records available during the investigation and proved his innocence so he wouldn't have to go through this farce. It isn't like the NFL would have released his private conversations to the public. In my mind, Tom Brady's actions are that of a guilty man and there is no possible way in hell that the courts will completely overturn his suspension. The absolute most he can get out of this is getting the suspension reduced without having to outright admit guilt, which would give him plausible deniability to protect his legacy/dignity somewhat since part of the suspension is absolutely about failing to cooperate with the investigation and that isn't worth 4 games (it might be after this, but they can't suspend him for destroying his phone since that information came out after the Well's report and initial suspension). That is the absolute MOST he can get out of taking it to court (and possibly playing Week 1 to whenever the court case is done). If the league has no right to request that sort of personal information, why should a player cooperate. There can be many very personal things on a phone that people don't want to share with the world. Why should Brady be forced to share information that the league has no right to request in the first place? In your mind, Brady is 100% guilty and you were certain of that the second this accusation was made. You are so insanely biased on this issue and it's really frustrating watching you constantly act so insanely hypocritical. You hate Roger more than anyone here and criticize every action he makes. But the second he punishes Brady you think he is completely justified in his actions. If this exact same thing happened to a Steeler you would be acting exactly the same as Patskid and if you aren't willing to admit that then you are delusional. Having said that, Patskid is also acting with incredible bias and is also hypocritical in the sense that he'd be treating this very differently if it was a player from a team he did not like (like the Steelers).
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Post by Divebitch on Jul 29, 2015 8:08:17 GMT -5
It isn't like the NFL would have released his private conversations to the public. In my mind, Tom Brady's actions are that of a guilty man If the league has no right to request that sort of personal information, why should a player cooperate. There can be many very personal things on a phone that people don't want to share with the world. Why should Brady be forced to share information that the league has no right to request in the first place? In your mind, Brady is 100% guilty and you were certain of that the second this accusation was made. You are so insanely biased on this issue and it's really frustrating watching you constantly act so insanely hypocritical. You hate Roger more than anyone here and criticize every action he makes. But the second he punishes Brady you think he is completely justified in his actions. If this exact same thing happened to a Steeler you would be acting exactly the same as Patskid and if you aren't willing to admit that then you are delusional. Having said that, Patskid is also acting with incredible bias and is also hypocritical in the sense that he'd be treating this very differently if it was a player from a team he did not like (like the Steelers). Can't argue about the bias on both side, it's hilarious. Anyway, I too thought that destroying a phone cannot delete the contents. And what about the phones of the ball guys? Did they cooperate?!? You don't hear about it. Weird, right? Something is off. Like the right questions are not being asked. So...could it be that it's the last thing anyone suspects? Crazy as it may sound, like an affair or sexting. Hey, Tiger Wood was also married to a supermodel. I know nothing outside football is admissible. But can he rest easy never knowing whose hands some info may have fallen into. She can easily afford the best lawyers in the world. Mind you, Goodell/NFL is of course not a court of law. No power to enforce phone record demands. A real court can probably do that, so Brady's taking it there makes no sense if his reasons for destroying the phone had to do with an unrelated but embarrassing or criminal issues. Or maybe it WOULD make sense. Cuz it would be immaterial, thus inadmissible. And perhaps the courts more trustworthy than the NFL with personal/sensitive information.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2015 9:53:51 GMT -5
This is getting way to much attention on TV. It's training camp time. I wish the NFL would have just reduced the suspension and we all move on.
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Post by Juggs on Jul 29, 2015 10:07:30 GMT -5
Why is this "destroying the phone" crap an issue?? If the NFL thought the phone was the smoking gun, they can take it to court, and subpoena the information. It's not like after you destroy a phone all of the contents disappear. Because it is an internal NFL investigation, and they have no investigatory power if the accused destroys the evidence they request. This weeks appeal was about Brady bringing forward evidence to reduce his suspension, when instead, he brought forward evidence that he had deliberately destroyed his own appeals process. Why would the league reward that? They didn't punish him for breaking his phone, they kept his punishment what it was. If Brady had proven to have cooperated in the investigation with a phone fulls of exonerating messages, then things may have gone differently. Furthermore, as Patskid pointed out, the league already had circumstantial evidence in the form of text messages on the phones of attendants that invoked Tom Brady. In the league's eyes, that evidence was enough, so they gave Brady an oppurtunity to out do that strength of evidence with his own phone records, but if he declines (or destroys evidence), then the strongest evidence they have remains the attendants phones. If nothing changed, then why would he be granted an appeal?
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Post by packdog on Jul 29, 2015 12:59:01 GMT -5
the phone isn't a big deal outside public opinion if brady gets this court. it could actually help him. once in court the issue ceases to be about deflategate and becomes about procedure. if fault is found in that then nothing that actually happened matters
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Post by packdog on Jul 29, 2015 13:13:18 GMT -5
If nothing changed, then why would he be granted an appeal? all players get an appeal. it's basically a right. a federal court won't even hear a case till all forms of appeals and such have been exhausted. and the appeal went pretty good for brady in the end. sounds bad but goodall gave him a little more ammo by presiding over it. i know the cba gives him the right but the first thing his lawyers are gonna seize on is bias and if they're good there is a way. rice and peterson won in court. brady has a great chance
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