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Post by DPNormanReturns on Nov 7, 2014 21:53:13 GMT -5
MarchingOn Jindred I think it is a very smart move. There was obviously an issue with the rules, and he exploited it. What's wrong with that? It's like teams in the N.F.L. throwing 40+ passes per game. They are exploiting the BS rules we have now which prohibit DBs from touching or even really breathing too hard on receivers. But is it wrong for them to do it if it's within the rules? I don't think so. But throwing it 40 times ins't against the rules. This move is against the rules hence why its penalized. As "smart" as it may be because it saved them a goal, its totally classless. How many other goalies have you ever seen do this? I am going to say none to very few. And the answer remains that its because it show a total lack of class within the game. Its the same thing as a guy taking a hand ball to save a goal in soccer like Suarez did in the the 2010 world cup. Its doing something against the rules to win.. If you are a sports team, your goal is to win. If there are loopholes in the rules that allow you to foul and still gain an advantage, then it would be a mistake not to exploit them, because your goal is not to play according to some ethics of hockey, football, or basketball. Your goal is to win the game. I imagine you will disagree with this, but I really don't believe there is a morally correct or morally incorrect way to play sports. If you want to be Joe Flacco, and throw Hail Mary passes hoping for PI, then be my guest, because you're playing the game to the best of your ability (which in Flacco's case isn't a whole lot more than that). If you want to take a safety - such a big penalty that they even give the other team points for it - in order to improve your field position or something, then go ahead. And if you want to move your goal out of the way to take a penalty to get an easier chance to stop the opponent, then by all means you should do it. Sure the rulebook will give you a small penalty. But allowing them to score gives you a much bigger penalty. You have to play to win the game. If doing things that are against the rules gives you an advantage (I do want to clarify that this from a strategic standpoint, not pertaining to PEDs or things like "bountyhunting" on defense), then you should do it. Otherwise, you are arguing against such common practices as taking intentional safeties in football and committing intentional fouls in basketball. Do you think those things are just wrong?
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Post by Jindred on Nov 7, 2014 21:55:42 GMT -5
But throwing it 40 times ins't against the rules. This move is against the rules hence why its penalized. As "smart" as it may be because it saved them a goal, its totally classless. How many other goalies have you ever seen do this? I am going to say none to very few. And the answer remains that its because it show a total lack of class within the game. Its the same thing as a guy taking a hand ball to save a goal in soccer like Suarez did in the the 2010 world cup. Its doing something against the rules to win.. Is it wrong to foul a break away shooter in basketball? I don't mind this. And if it's done enough to be a real issue, they'll make a rule. Honestly I think the fouling system in basketball is stupid, its part of the reason I have trouble enjoying the game. It however is just part of the game the way it is played so I can't fault anyone for playing it like that. This is not how hockey is played.
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Post by DPNormanReturns on Nov 7, 2014 22:03:51 GMT -5
This is definitely how hockey is played, at least by that guy.
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Post by Jindred on Nov 7, 2014 22:10:28 GMT -5
If you are a sports team, your goal is to win. If there are loopholes in the rules that allow you to foul and still gain an advantage, then it would be a mistake not to exploit them, because your goal is not to play according to some ethics of hockey, football, or basketball. Your goal is to win the game. I imagine you will disagree with this, but I really don't believe there is a morally correct or morally incorrect way to play sports. If you want to be Joe Flacco, and throw Hail Mary passes hoping for PI, then be my guest, because you're playing the game to the best of your ability (which in Flacco's case isn't a whole lot more than that). If you want to take a safety - such a big penalty that they even give the other team points for it - in order to improve your field position or something, then go ahead. And if you want to move your goal out of the way to take a penalty to get an easier chance to stop the opponent, then by all means you should do it. Sure the rulebook will give you a small penalty. But allowing them to score gives you a much bigger penalty. You have to play to win the game. If doing things that are against the rules gives you an advantage (I do want to clarify that this from a strategic standpoint, not pertaining to PEDs or things like "bountyhunting" on defense), then you should do it. Otherwise, you are arguing against such common practices as taking intentional safeties in football and committing intentional fouls in basketball. Do you think those things are just wrong? This is doing something against the rules, its cheating. Taking a safety isn't against the rules, fouling someone in basketball is the way the game is played you are comparing apples and oranges here. I think taking intentional PI in a game is classless to. You got beat, you aren't good enough.. Except it and move on. I don't subscribe to the win at all costs mentality, in fact I think that mentality is BS. Play the game the way its meant to be played, and win and lose with class.
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Post by Jindred on Nov 7, 2014 22:15:01 GMT -5
But throwing it 40 times ins't against the rules. This move is against the rules hence why its penalized. As "smart" as it may be because it saved them a goal, its totally classless. How many other goalies have you ever seen do this? I am going to say none to very few. And the answer remains that its because it show a total lack of class within the game. Its the same thing as a guy taking a hand ball to save a goal in soccer like Suarez did in the the 2010 world cup. Its doing something against the rules to win.. This was the first time I've ever seen it done obvious and blatant, but goalies "accidentally" knock the net off its moorings all the time. I've never seen it on a break away before. Most of the "accidental ones" I've are when a guy has his ass park right in the goalies face and back up into the goalie interfering with him. I have never seen one like this and it bothers me to see it. It just shows that sports have degraded to the point where winning is more important than sportsmanship, which to me is very sad.
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Post by DPNormanReturns on Nov 7, 2014 22:37:21 GMT -5
If you are a sports team, your goal is to win. If there are loopholes in the rules that allow you to foul and still gain an advantage, then it would be a mistake not to exploit them, because your goal is not to play according to some ethics of hockey, football, or basketball. Your goal is to win the game. I imagine you will disagree with this, but I really don't believe there is a morally correct or morally incorrect way to play sports. If you want to be Joe Flacco, and throw Hail Mary passes hoping for PI, then be my guest, because you're playing the game to the best of your ability (which in Flacco's case isn't a whole lot more than that). If you want to take a safety - such a big penalty that they even give the other team points for it - in order to improve your field position or something, then go ahead. And if you want to move your goal out of the way to take a penalty to get an easier chance to stop the opponent, then by all means you should do it. Sure the rulebook will give you a small penalty. But allowing them to score gives you a much bigger penalty. You have to play to win the game. If doing things that are against the rules gives you an advantage (I do want to clarify that this from a strategic standpoint, not pertaining to PEDs or things like "bountyhunting" on defense), then you should do it. Otherwise, you are arguing against such common practices as taking intentional safeties in football and committing intentional fouls in basketball. Do you think those things are just wrong? This is doing something against the rules, its cheating. Taking a safety isn't against the rules, fouling someone in basketball is the way the game is played you are comparing apples and oranges here. I think taking intentional PI in a game is classless to. You got beat, you aren't good enough.. Except it and move on. I don't subscribe to the win at all costs mentality, in fact I think that mentality is BS. Play the game the way its meant to be played, and win and lose with class. I don't think it's cheating because I don't believe there is a such thing as a way the game was meant to be played. If a team uses the rulebook to its advantage, it's because of bad rules, not cheating.
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Post by DPNormanReturns on Nov 7, 2014 22:40:30 GMT -5
This was the first time I've ever seen it done obvious and blatant, but goalies "accidentally" knock the net off its moorings all the time. I've never seen it on a break away before. Most of the "accidental ones" I've are when a guy has his ass park right in the goalies face and back up into the goalie interfering with him. I have never seen one like this and it bothers me to see it. It just shows that sports have degraded to the point where winning is more important than sportsmanship, which to me is very sad. Jindred, nobody else thinks it has to do with sportsmanship but you! If I were on a breakaway and the goalie did that on purpose, I would not be offended - he made a smart choice, he'll get penalized for it, and maybe it'll work out for him, maybe it won't. If you want to choose to interpret things as bad sportsmanship just because they offend you personally, then be my guest. But in the real world, nobody gives a crap. The goal is to win, and I don't think there's any problem with taking a small penalty to help your team.
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Post by Jindred on Nov 7, 2014 22:53:38 GMT -5
I've never seen it on a break away before. Most of the "accidental ones" I've are when a guy has his ass park right in the goalies face and back up into the goalie interfering with him. I have never seen one like this and it bothers me to see it. It just shows that sports have degraded to the point where winning is more important than sportsmanship, which to me is very sad. Jindred, nobody else thinks it has to do with sportsmanship but you! If I were on a breakaway and the goalie did that on purpose, I would not be offended - he made a smart choice, he'll get penalized for it, and maybe it'll work out for him, maybe it won't. If you want to choose to interpret things as bad sportsmanship just because they offend you personally, then be my guest. But in the real world, nobody gives a crap. The goal is to win, and I don't think there's any problem with taking a small penalty to help your team. I am going to have agree to disagree.. To me its clearly bad sportsmanship, and people thinking it isn't to me means there is no such thing as sportsmanship anymore, its all about winning at all costs now and that makes me sad.
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Post by MarchingOn on Nov 8, 2014 1:30:12 GMT -5
I'm going to miss these guys.
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Post by saskabronco on Nov 8, 2014 3:14:29 GMT -5
I've never seen it on a break away before. Most of the "accidental ones" I've are when a guy has his ass park right in the goalies face and back up into the goalie interfering with him. I have never seen one like this and it bothers me to see it. It just shows that sports have degraded to the point where winning is more important than sportsmanship, which to me is very sad. Jindred, nobody else thinks it has to do with sportsmanship but you! If I were on a breakaway and the goalie did that on purpose, I would not be offended - he made a smart choice, he'll get penalized for it, and maybe it'll work out for him, maybe it won't. If you want to choose to interpret things as bad sportsmanship just because they offend you personally, then be my guest. But in the real world, nobody gives a crap. The goal is to win, and I don't think there's any problem with taking a small penalty to help your team. I agree with Jin, that it's a classless move. It's blatantly doing something illegal to prevent a team from getting a good opportunity. Of course he was smart to do it, because it worked in his favour, but it doesn't make any less of an unsportsmanlike move. In my opinion, the NHL should make the penalty much greater for a blatant delay of of game to prevent a scoring chance, like in soccer. If you do something like that in soccer (namely an intentional hand ball to prevent a goal) you are guaranteed to give up a penalty shot, your team will play down a player the rest of the game and you are suspended for the remainder or that game and the next... In hockey, the goalie in that situation should get a 5 minute major and a game misconduct. You're right that he's smart to do it because the penalty is minor, so the leagues should make the penalties more major... It makes a mockery of the game if a goalie just knocks the net off every time he feels like he might get beat.
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